Damage Meters

Do those of you who are so adamantly against a damage meter not understand that you do not have to play with those darned "elitist" bastards?

What you people are whining about is similar to not wanting a map because it shows where you are...

Of course how profound of you.

It has nothing to do creating an elitist community segregating their interpretation of the player base into the acceptable & unacceptable. Naturally it wont be used to kick players from flashpoints & operations if 1 players believes someone is underperforming according to their stardards.

I seem to recall a post on wow's forums early in Cata when 1 player posted "If you cant achieve 3k DPS stay out of my Dungeons." And that wouldnt happen here....oh no

Silly me, here I was thinking it would be used as a tool to seperate the community just like achievements & gearscore. When all along it's people not wanting to pull their weight, oh silly silly me.....................................

In other words your self esteem are so low you NEEDto tell others how bad they are so you can feel good yourself.
You just want a hammer you can bash others over the head with when they dont do as much dps and whatnot as you DEMAND they do, just so you can hide your inability to learn and adapt to a situation.

Have you even tried playing any other game than wow?
I have, and of them had this stupid meter thing, yet nobody in these games seem to have any problem completing any of the content.

By adding these stupid meters all you do is divide the community based solely on arbitrary numbers and nothing else.
To say that a player is bad purely based on a completely arbitrary number is condescending towards that player.

You have no way to know if a player is good or bad purely based on these arbitrary numbers.
Its arrogant and stupid and the only bad player is in that case you by saying that others are bad just because they dont meet your completely arbitrary standards.

What good does high DPS do anyway when the encounter is based on skill, situational awareness and cooperation rather than a DPS race?
This game dont even have a combat log so a meter would not help anything.
The content of the game is designed to be done by paying attention to what is actually happening and adapting to a situation, not so you can sit and watch your favorite TV show while mashing the same 3 buttons over and over all the time.

I play thins game for fun and entertainment, not as another job where I constantly have to try and squeeze out every last point of dps I can of my char and then some.
I want to do things with others and have fun doing so, and if we cant beat a boss I want us to discuss the encounter and find out what we are doing wrong and change our tactics to adapt, rather than to just replace some random player for not having enough DPS.

TL;DR:
Simply put, YOU need a dps meter so you can hide behind some arbitrary numbers giving you the illusion of being good, when the truth is that you have no idea whatsoever how to play the game in any other way.

I think you nailed it right on the head on that one. There will be players trying to police how you play your own char and tell you how well you done. Unless that person is willing to pay for my fee per month. I'll play the game and judge my own performance.

No need for aggro at all. Spec your character the way you want to play and enjoy the game. You don't need to worry about holding aggro as the tanking in a group. Just enjoy the game the way it's made. If you want to know how you fare tank wise, try different builds and see what holds aggro better. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

No need for damage for a healer to heal at all. Spec your character the way you want to play and enjoy the game. You don't need to worry about healing the group in a group. Just enjoy the game the way it's made. If you want to know how well you fare at healing a group, try different builds and see if you can keep the group alive better. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

Do you see the hypocracy? It's easy to see when a tank fails to do his job, the mobs are running around everywhere hitting the squishy characters. It's easy to see when a healer is failing, everyone in the group is dying from raid damage.

BUT we can't see how well a DPS class is doing because that information is his and his alone. His ability has no impact on the experience for others?

For all of you people against DPS meters, are you also against having the boss in an encounter have an aggro table? Should you just pick the target you want to have the boss beat on and click a button and that happens. What about healers? should there be no damage because the healers just want to play the way they enjoy and having to spec into certain talents ruins their fun?

Why are DPS classes exempt from Responsibility?

Some news, it's not elitists kicking low dps people, it's people slightly less bad than the bad getting kicked. In WoW I literally have no kick timer because I never votekick, I have enough dps so that I can simply make up for the 2 others, I have enough dps and gear and control as a tank that I make up for at least 1 dps and as healer there isn't that much to heal that I oom. I simply facepalm, abuse the people, over vent, have some laughs and endure.

But make no mistake, I endure, it feels exactly like the random idiot at work that makes you cringe every day when they fail the most basic task and never seem to get it, and sometimes worse, they show no interest. But I can't fire them. Well, a group kick is that option many of us want at work, get rid of the guy that is useless. I wish they implemented in in real life, without the hassle of having the boss protect them.

While I don't expect people to treat MMOs like a job this is not farmville, this is not single player.

I expect other to show me a modicum of respect for the time I put in, for the fact that it's not only their time being used, for the fact that they don't play along 3 AIs with no feelings, emotions, patience and without infinite time.

Contrary to popular opinion being a hardcore elitist doesn't require a basement, no job and 24/7 on the computer. I have a bloody mortgage to pay and between a job and finishing up a night of heroic DS wiping I would like to not be insulted by most of the players I group with because they believe they are not required to do anything above 1 button press and clicking some flashy abilities that do nothing more than provoke a wipe.

If you don't understand basic respect and social rules you have no place in an MMO. That's why a damage meter is needed. There is no magical elitist bunch out to get you. Nobody will mess with anyone trying, doing their best and respecting other people's time but don't expect to be treated well if you don't treat others well ... or do you expect that because you pay your sub? You don't pay it to me m8.

If you're not raiding, then you really shouldn't care about dps meters at all because whatever you do isn't going to be hindered by them. If you are raiding, and you don't care about them, then you're more likely to be a liability on the group then an asset.[/QUOTE]

Or and here is an idea, have a game that doesn't have meters and set the level of difficulty in the game to the reality that it doesn't have meters or add-ons or extra macros or a place where you can us real cash to buy better gear or (insert edge need here). If you need Damage Meters and other add ons to raid then raiding could be redesigned.

Design a game that doesn't need them, create a game that is interesting and compelling without the need for damage meters and market that game to people that either don't care or don't want damage meters and other addons....and allow those that want a damage meter driven game to enjoy damage meter addon driven games.

This game is great without all the "get and edge" tools and from what I have heard from most poeple as a general rule this game is not too hard to play without the doodads.

I appreciate your response and realize that this is an archetypal divide, like sandbox vs. themepark.

Evocatively and well said.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12...parsing-other/

The game will get combat logs. It is inevitable that the game will then get damage meters. If you can log combat before mods are supported, someone will make an external DPS meter. Of course the game's developers would want you to be able to analyze your character.

When people complain about the WoW community and how it's full of people who freak out about everything, I will point to this thread and claim it's the whole internet.

Seems to me the only people freaking out and against putting damage meters in game are the ones who don't feel like having their performance scrutinized to make sure they're pulling their own weight in a multiplayer instance. They prefer nobody knows what anybody's doing, so the fail people, if any, can coast along and get carried by the rest of the group. I'm sure those same people who didn't pull their weight the entire way will expect just as much, if not more rewards than the fellow who busted his *** picking up the slack.

I don't deal well with undeserving senses of entitlement. If I'm in a raid, and someone isn't cutting it, I give them some tips on how to improve. If they still don't, they're gone. It's simple logic. Why should the rest of the group have to pull extra weight because one or two people can't pull their own? This attitude of, "Oh, everyone deserves a medal just for being there" has got to go.

DPS meters let everyone see who's pulling their weight, and who's just there getting a free ride. Like in Jonestown, if you don't work, you don't eat, but there has to be a way to see who's working or not. Especially in high tier raiding, meters will be damn near required. If a guild wants to only bring their highest dps players to an end-game raid, there first needs to be a way to see who those people are.

It's not about being elitist (though I don't see why that's such a horrible thing; it seems the only ones who complain endlessly about elitism are the ones who aren't); it's about being fair to the entire group.

Edit: Oh, and I'm taking for granted that the above hypothetical group is smart and knows that someone who spends a fight CC'ing is, by necessity, going to have super low DPS. I would think that much should b obvious.