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Gunnery versus Marksman

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Gunnery versus Marksman

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
06.09.2015 , 10:51 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by TheJollyRogers View Post

It's always a "perception" issue when it's not your class and an underpowered issue when it is.

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting Commandos/Mercenaries are fine, but I do find it odd that you guys are targeting a class that is doing abysmal in solo and mediocre in group (despite our reputation in ranked, our top sniper sits at 1738, underneath every class but you guys and marauders). Playing a gunslinger/sniper in ranked right now is not an enjoyable experience by any means, and not something you really want to put as your goal post.
As mercs we understand your point far better than even you do i think, but i digress...
Those classes in the middle are where they should be, logic tells us that... the issues inst they they are weak or OP, just that others are for whatever reason. Why are people playing Sorcs over Mercs/Snipers for example?
Snipers to me, and i play one, are strong and have good defensive toolkit.
Perhaps it would be helpful to know why you think they are weak, and what you feel would improve them?
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Whaitwhutwalrus's Avatar


Whaitwhutwalrus
06.09.2015 , 10:51 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
This is a perception issue, not a reality issue.
People THINK sniper/slingers are weak because there arent more on the leaderboards, but they are not. The reason we dont see more of them is not weakness, but the fact that people can do more with other classes in terms of overall utility, specifically, Sorcs.
Sometimes people take too much at face value and forget to think.
It's generally accepted by the majority of pvpers that the sniper is in a bad place for solo ranked ( not just by the data) that said, the merc is in the same vote. ( then again most can argue that the problem is not with the classes but with solo ranked itself).

I can emphasize that gunnerys burst dps is not nearly up to par with marksman however if they brought it up to the same level, then there would be no reason to play marksman and we'd be in the same vote with marksman not comparing up to gunnery (due to not having the cleanse/off-healing/mobility). [am bringing up mobility do to the sniper relies on being in cover for the interrupt immunity on its cast times while the merc with thrill of the hunt can use several abilities without having to stand in place).

Pretty much atm mercs are trading off the loss of burst for poor off-heals that don't work very well therefore I think a solution to this would be to upgrade the mercs off-heals and make them more effective (i.e. actually useful and harder to shut down [ basically on par with sorcs off-healing ] .
Zer0ing

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
06.09.2015 , 11:03 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Whaitwhutwalrus View Post
It's generally accepted by the majority of pvpers that the sniper is in a bad place for solo ranked ( not just by the data) that said, the merc is in the same vote. ( then again most can argue that the problem is not with the classes but with solo ranked itself).

I can emphasize that gunnerys burst dps is not nearly up to par with marksman however if they brought it up to the same level, then there would be no reason to play marksman and we'd be in the same vote with marksman not comparing up to gunnery (due to not having the cleanse/off-healing/mobility). [am bringing up mobility do to the sniper relies on being in cover for the interrupt immunity on its cast times while the merc with thrill of the hunt can use several abilities without having to stand in place).

Pretty much atm mercs are trading off the loss of burst for poor off-heals that don't work very well therefore I think a solution to this would be to upgrade the mercs off-heals and make them more effective (i.e. actually useful and harder to shut down [ basically on par with sorcs off-healing ] .
True, but the question isnt that, the questions is WHY is this the perception regarding Sniper/Slingers? and is it factual?
Your points on Mercs are accurate. I'm just curious to see why you feel this is the case on Sniper/Slingers.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Thaladan's Avatar


Thaladan
06.09.2015 , 11:09 AM | #64
srly unless the environnement is totally without space to hide, a gunnery will always win against marksman.

electro net, insane instant burst, hydraulic, hide and heal and come back, grenade, instant, hide etc ...what can do a marksman?they can't regain life for god sake ! any smart gunnery playing with the environnement must win

legend of hyperspace

Whaitwhutwalrus's Avatar


Whaitwhutwalrus
06.09.2015 , 11:12 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
True, but the question isnt that, the questions is WHY is this the perception regarding Sniper/Slingers? and is it factual?
Your points on Mercs are accurate. I'm just curious to see why you feel this is the case on Sniper/Slingers.
The reason snipers under perform in solo ranked is due to the same reason that mercs under perform, their cooldowns do not do well under focus fire. After the sniper uses its roll (buys 2 seconds) and evasion (buys 3 seconds) and knock back (good depending on the situation) they're pretty much a sitting duck (depending on the other teams group composition). Diversion works rather well if the other team as a few melee on their side but ranged dps can just walk right out of it (plus it's not a sure way to mitigate damage). Leg shot/flash bang can be (most of the time will be) broken by your own team.

Even if you use your cool downs effectively in solo ranked without support from your team, you're going to die very quickly. The sniper is almost the definition of a glass cannon, very easy to kill (under focus) however can put out great damage.

Pretty much the strat for snipers in yolos is to stay alive as long as possible and do as much damage as you can before being the first to die. (second if you've got a merc on your team =-P )
Zer0ing

Glower's Avatar


Glower
06.09.2015 , 11:24 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
This is a perception issue, not a reality issue.
People THINK sniper/slingers are weak because there arent more on the leaderboards, but they are not.
No it's not, my sniper is weak in yolo in similar way as my merc. And my merc feels better in normals than my sniper without team support.

Maybe i'm not a very good sniper but at least i'm not a bad. I can feel the difference between the best dps ever (for me it's a mad sins or mad/light sorcs) and basement rats.
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Vember's Avatar


Vember
06.09.2015 , 11:44 AM | #67
I can't speak to Marksman, never played it, but both Virulence and Engineering are in bad shape.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
06.09.2015 , 12:17 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Whaitwhutwalrus View Post
The reason snipers under perform in solo ranked is due to the same reason that mercs under perform, their cooldowns do not do well under focus fire. After the sniper uses its roll (buys 2 seconds) and evasion (buys 3 seconds) and knock back (good depending on the situation) they're pretty much a sitting duck (depending on the other teams group composition). Diversion works rather well if the other team as a few melee on their side but ranged dps can just walk right out of it (plus it's not a sure way to mitigate damage). Leg shot/flash bang can be (most of the time will be) broken by your own team.

Even if you use your cool downs effectively in solo ranked without support from your team, you're going to die very quickly. The sniper is almost the definition of a glass cannon, very easy to kill (under focus) however can put out great damage.

Pretty much the strat for snipers in yolos is to stay alive as long as possible and do as much damage as you can before being the first to die. (second if you've got a merc on your team =-P )
OK, i agree with all of this, i was waiting for someone to list it.
The things is though... that's a lot of seconds you can buy... now of course after that you are reliant on your team to survive till they come back around, that's 100% true and like Mercs you need that help to be truly viable.
I do think some of you overestimate how "Easy" a kill it is. When those cool downs are in play you are very tough for a decent period of time.
Now the defenses dont heal you like some others do so it isnt easy mode, but i would argue the fact that they do IS the problem, not the fact that you dont. The other classes need to get nerfed before snipers need a buff IMO.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

BaineOs's Avatar


BaineOs
06.09.2015 , 01:32 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
The other classes need to get nerfed before snipers need a buff IMO.
Which I why we will be in a big black hole for quite some time unfortunately.
Es'carli D'Lakutos
Level 1 - 65, three disciplines, three characters, one video

Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
06.09.2015 , 01:49 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Lalainnia View Post
in a 1v1 any smart mm sniper will close the gap in distance with either roll and entrench or flash grenade but that would most commonly be used on htl to prevent themselves from being Los'ed once that happens there is notrunning away from them. Not facing any good snipers if you truly feel that a arsenal merc will beat a MM sniper
A smart sniper will try to close the distance. A smarter sorc/merc will abuse the LOS while self healing, stay near maximum distance (which means those things you count are not enough) and chip away at the sniper's health.

That self-heal you got is what makes it superb. You don't even need great instants, you could probably pull it off with just basic ranged attack.
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