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Gunnery versus Marksman

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Gunnery versus Marksman
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Lalainnia's Avatar


Lalainnia
06.08.2015 , 04:06 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew View Post
More instants than an MM sniper and self-heal means you can participate in the LOS shenanigans, which is basically what shuts a MM sniper down. You should not be losing a 1v1, if things come to that, unless you're caught in wide open ground.
in a 1v1 any smart mm sniper will close the gap in distance with either roll and entrench or flash grenade but that would most commonly be used on htl to prevent themselves from being Los'ed once that happens there is notrunning away from them. Not facing any good snipers if you truly feel that a arsenal merc will beat a MM sniper
Donna-Commando-Combat Medic
When we care for others our own strength to live increases. When we help people expand their state of life, our lives also expand. Actions to benefit others are not separate from actions to benefit oneself.

HaoZhao's Avatar


HaoZhao
06.08.2015 , 04:06 AM | #22
I agree that mercenaries are in a bad place right now, but there shouldn't be any confusion about why snipers are outperforming them. The developers made it pretty clear sometime during 2.X that their philosophy on snipers and marauders is that because those two classes can only fill the DPS role, they always have to be among the best of the DPS specs. I'm not sure why they mentioned marauders with a straight face knowing where they were in PVP (even for regs), but snipers (in regs) have been very viable. On Jung Ma, we have an engineering sniper who has been doing great in solo ranked, lately!

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but if snipers aren't the best at ranged DPS, why play a sniper at all? Mercs have off-heals. If gunnery is better at raw DPS than all snipers, what incentive is left to play a sniper? Are you going to play it because you hate having heals? I know your complaints are mostly about survivability, but survivability and DPS are closely linked concepts. There's a powerful correlation between being alive and doing damage.

I agree that something needs to be done about mercs though. Obviously they've earned their reputations as free kills in solo ranked for a reason.

Thaladan's Avatar


Thaladan
06.08.2015 , 05:38 AM | #23
at same skill, any dps spec that can self heal must win other maras and sniper. teh difference of dps cannot counterbalance, never. (and if you want to say that mercenaries and sorcerers dps are bad other sniper...humm no)

legend of hyperspace

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
06.08.2015 , 06:03 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Thaladan View Post
at same skill, any dps spec that can self heal must win other maras and sniper. teh difference of dps cannot counterbalance, never. (and if you want to say that mercenaries and sorcerers dps are bad other sniper...humm no)
A sniper/slinger's dps can easily out pace a merc/mando's self healing.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
06.08.2015 , 06:17 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by HaoZhao View Post
I agree that mercenaries are in a bad place right now, but there shouldn't be any confusion about why snipers are outperforming them. The developers made it pretty clear sometime during 2.X that their philosophy on snipers and marauders is that because those two classes can only fill the DPS role, they always have to be among the best of the DPS specs. I'm not sure why they mentioned marauders with a straight face knowing where they were in PVP (even for regs), but snipers (in regs) have been very viable. On Jung Ma, we have an engineering sniper who has been doing great in solo ranked, lately!

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but if snipers aren't the best at ranged DPS, why play a sniper at all? Mercs have off-heals. If gunnery is better at raw DPS than all snipers, what incentive is left to play a sniper? Are you going to play it because you hate having heals? I know your complaints are mostly about survivability, but survivability and DPS are closely linked concepts. There's a powerful correlation between being alive and doing damage.

I agree that something needs to be done about mercs though. Obviously they've earned their reputations as free kills in solo ranked for a reason.
I seem to remember BW stating they'd moved away from this philosophy not too long ago.

Because in practice, it made absolutely no sense. You can't off-heal while you're DPSing, and it was MUCH smarter to bring along a healer and a 'pure' dps, than two hybrids. So they nerfed the crap out of offhealing (at least for mercs), and the damage/burst was supposed to be equalised.

We're in a good place in PvE, it's in PvP that we suffer - really due to lack of an antifocus ability more than anything else.
Zacharïah - Commando / Chasso, Aargh - Merc
The Twinkletoes Legacy
Zachariah's Merc/Mando PvP Guides
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Zoidrinali's Avatar


Zoidrinali
06.08.2015 , 06:28 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Because in practice, it made absolutely no sense.
Except it does make some sense. I can see what they're getting at but being able to heal period is a massive tactical advantage over those classes who cannot heal at all. Many a time I've almost killed someone when they whizz away heal up and come back with me almost dead. I'm always willing to embrace new ideas and concepts but playing a class that has no healing abilities at all I have to say....it does get extremely irratating.

In the same twitch stream they also said that they made the mistake of buffing classes to bring them up to the same level as those who were dealing too much damage. As a result ttk got way out of line so they now have a different philosphy. I believe they are making the same mistake with all this cc immunity.

Every new form of cc immunity or mobilisation skill the give classes will only hurt those AC's whose defence rely heavily on cc. A star for anyone who guesses the class I'm referring to!
Es'carli D'Lakutos (Active) - Baine Os Juros (Active)
Engineering spec

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
06.08.2015 , 06:43 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Lalainnia View Post
I guess gunnery has more overall armor pen??? .
Armor pen is actually bad though because of how the devs balance the damage output of classes.

Devs balance the damage of classes around PvE. Operations bosses in this game have somewhere around 50% armor. This means that in PvE armor pen is twice as valuable than it is in PvP. So in order for the devs to make classes with less native armor pen PvE viable they have to give them significantly higher base damage than their armor-penned counterparts.
This is why AP PTs hit so damn hard, because they have 0% armor pen on everything except HiB and thus have really high base damage on all their abilities. This is why burst specs like lightning which deals in IE damage (ignores armor) have such low base damage.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
06.08.2015 , 06:57 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoidrinali View Post
Except it does make some sense.
In theory. In practice, none whatsoever. Snipers and marauders were outperforming 'hybrid' DPS to such an extent that there was pretty much no other rational choice.

Which is why they reversed course on that line of thinking from 3.0 on.
Zacharïah - Commando / Chasso, Aargh - Merc
The Twinkletoes Legacy
Zachariah's Merc/Mando PvP Guides
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Zoidrinali's Avatar


Zoidrinali
06.08.2015 , 07:06 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
In theory. In practice, none whatsoever. Snipers and marauders were outperforming 'hybrid' DPS to such an extent that there was pretty much no other rational choice.

Which is why they reversed course on that line of thinking from 3.0 on.
In a war of attrition, which is basically what we have even here in 3.2, those who can heal up will always have the tactical advantage. If you want to boost damage ok sure why not but it's even more frustrating now with the damage they can do and the ability to heal themselves.
Es'carli D'Lakutos (Active) - Baine Os Juros (Active)
Engineering spec

TheCourier-'s Avatar


TheCourier-
06.08.2015 , 07:11 AM | #30
Double post by accident.
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