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3.2.1 Marauder/Sentinel Insight: Self Healing and Set Bonuses

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
3.2.1 Marauder/Sentinel Insight: Self Healing and Set Bonuses
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JohnJarynowski's Avatar


JohnJarynowski
05.06.2015 , 02:15 PM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey everyone,

Concluding our threads that lend insight on recent Marauder/Sentinel design choices, we’re continuing with a discussion regarding Annihilation/Watchman self healing changes and a discussion on improving set bonuses.

Hungering/Merciless Zeal Changes:

The new design for Hungering/Merciless Zeal is intended to drastically improve the self healing potential of Annihilation/Watchman players depending on their offensive involvement and multi-target coordination. On a single target, the HPS has been slightly decreased. This is by design to counterbalance the vastly improved self healing provided by DoTing multiple targets. With the new Hemorrhaging Smash/Burning Sweep Smash/Force Sweep cooldown reduction, spreading DoTs is easier and more fluid than on Live. This should drastically increase the self healing and DPS potential of Annihilation/Watchman players combating multiple targets.

Set Bonus Improvements:

We also want to take this opportunity to ask the Marauder/Sentinel community about expanding the ability trigger options for the Weaponmaster’s/Challenger’s Critical Bonus set bonus. At present, only Ravage/Master Strike can trigger the Weaponmaster’s/Challenger’s Critical Bonus. To allow for greater rotational flexibility across all Marauder/Sentinel Disciplines, we want to discuss the potential to add additional abilities as trigger activators. At present, we are considering adding Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw to the Weaponmaster’s/Challenger’s Critical Bonus trigger. What are your thoughts on this? We want to reduce the rotational constraints of some set bonuses, and felt that this was an appropriate opportunity to discuss strategies with you all.

Thanks to all for the constructive feedback. Please feel free to share your perspectives on the proposed changes outlined above. We will continue to monitor and test thread feedback as we move forward.

Cheers, all!
John
John Jarynowski | System Designer
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DynamiCtagez's Avatar


DynamiCtagez
05.06.2015 , 02:23 PM | #2
No. Spreading DoTs isn't fluent on Maras.
3 Focus cost for DoT-sprad, no range, pathetic diameter and damage, not part of single target rotation and a 6second DoT to spread? No, no, no, no, no. Let me give you an example: Serenity has a DoT spread with a laugable cost, good damage, INSANE diameter and 10m range, as part of their single target rotation AND an additional improvement with Death Mark that also applies to ALL targets affected. Do you see how dumb that sounds in comparison to ours? How ridiculous? Care to explain what led to this decision?

Nobody asked for DoT-spread. You gave us DoT-spread, but it is the most awful mechanic in PvP. By introducing a 6 second DoT (which is a step in the right direction, don't get me wrong) you led this change ad absurdum.
Using DoT-spread with a 6second DoT, with a 3 Focus cost and a DoT-spread that has the most pathetic diameter and is not part of the single target rotation is NOT viable. Not in the slightest. Never (at least in PvP).

Either change this concept completely (by giving us a bigger diameter and removing the focus cost on our spread), or remove the spread and give us more single target DPS instead, like the class used to be.

Regarding heals: This is one of the few cases, where I would say at least you tried. It is not the most awful thing ever, but you are homogenizing classes. Why? Who asked for that? Right, nobody. I'm sure most of us don't want the same self-heal that Sages and Shadows have. We want to keep our unqiue mechanic. It was incredibly fun and fluent to use both PvP and PvE. Heal on crits was unqiue. This is also a NERF for every scenario in which we can't spread DoTs. Given our pathetic DoT-spread, it is actually a straight up nerf, because we will never be able to keep up a constant DoT-spread in PvP. And nobody spreads DoTs in endgame PvE when you're hitting a single boss. Even if it's useful for killing adds that's literally the only benefit it has.
Watchman is a single target spec. Please give us heals that don't require us to DoT up multiple targets.

Please give us back our 2% selfheal on crits, like it used to be. Nothing else needed in regards to self-heals.

g_mK's Avatar


g_mK
05.06.2015 , 02:26 PM | #3
Use spam abilities (Blade rush/Cauterize/Force Exhaustion)
While you are at it, make new 4-piece equivalent to old 4-piece
The ingenious gentleman Dón-Quijote de la Mancha

oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
05.06.2015 , 02:29 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by JohnJarynowski View Post

*snip*
Set Bonus Improvements:

We also want to take this opportunity to ask the Marauder/Sentinel community about expanding the ability trigger options for the Weaponmaster’s/Challenger’s Critical Bonus set bonus. At present, only Ravage/Master Strike can trigger the Weaponmaster’s/Challenger’s Critical Bonus. To allow for greater rotational flexibility across all Marauder/Sentinel Disciplines, we want to discuss the potential to add additional abilities as trigger activators. At present, we are considering adding Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw to the Weaponmaster’s/Challenger’s Critical Bonus trigger. What are your thoughts on this? We want to reduce the rotational constraints of some set bonuses, and felt that this was an appropriate opportunity to discuss strategies with you all.

Thanks to all for the constructive feedback. Please feel free to share your perspectives on the proposed changes outlined above. We will continue to monitor and test thread feedback as we move forward.

Cheers, all!
John
You just told us we were only supposed to use Dual Saber Throw / Twin Saber Throw on multiple targets, and now you want to impart more importance on the ability? I do not understand this logic.

Also, you previously said:

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnJarynowski
Following these Annihilation/Watchman rotation changes, we realize that there is a slight loss in DPS potential and want to take this opportunity to give you all the chance to voice where you would like to see this DPS returned. We will survey these posts in the coming week to assess your perspectives, and implement a DPS buff in the next PTS patch based on your feedback. Take this time to voice your opinions and state your reasoning. You have a chance to affect the rotational evolution of your class.
There was no DPS buff to speak of in any of the 3.2.1 PTS patches, all of the changes you are making reduce DPS.

So I have to ask if this latest request is just another opportunity for you to blatantly ignore feedback while ostensibly pretending to care?
Oofalong | Oofawrong | Incendiari | Uriyah | Litlah & More
Repoofalong | Tuamara | Liolami & More
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

Costello's Avatar


Costello
05.06.2015 , 02:36 PM | #5
John I don't know where you are getting your data from but AOE is far more difficult on a mdps than on a rdps and far far more difficult if you have to keep using a single target attack to build res courses to fuel aoe attacks.

My Merc has death from above and sweeping fire, the latter which I can pretty much spam.
My Sage has ground quake which I can spam.
My operative has rapid fire or whatever its called that used to need tactical advantage but seems to be 15 energy now which I can just spam.

All of the above are possitional so I can place them to catch as many of the enemy mobs as possible. When the aoe is centered around me and I have to be avoiding circles or death or chasing mobs or getting into position its much harder. All the while building resources I just don't think you understand how this plays.

As for the new set bonuses they are worse than what we had, For carnage spec having the 6 piece bonus only benefit vicious throw which needs to be on a proc or the target under 30% health to use makes it less than optimal. It would be much better to see a proc that benefited massacre or devastating blast. Though I would much prefer an across the board improvement to dps.

Given the placement of Mara/Sents in the ranked leaderboard

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/sentinel-marauder

would it be possible to comment if mara/sents in general are performing as designed and that the combat team do not believe that they should be able to make it into the top 100? Eric came and told us that Mara/sents were the best class in PvP and their involvement almost guaranteed a win is this still the case? Or is it fighting against a team that has a mara/sent in it that almost guarantees a win?

Cause I was just in a raid group with my carnage spec Mara as part of a guild run and it wasn't fun. I'd happily take your advise on learning to play cause as it stands working as hard as anyone else and having to be carried by the rest of the team is getting old. And nothing we have seen in the 3 posts today makes me think anything is going to change.

SevusAmast's Avatar


SevusAmast
05.06.2015 , 02:40 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by oofalong View Post
You just told us we were only supposed to use Dual Saber Throw / Twin Saber Throw on multiple targets, and now you want to impart more importance on the ability? I do not understand this logic.
I think you've been parsing that statement wrong. How I read it is "Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw should be used against multiple targets OR when you have the Pulverize/Mind Sear buff OR when you are further than 4m from your target OR when any combination of the above are true."

Kazyon's Avatar


Kazyon
05.06.2015 , 02:40 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by oofalong View Post
So I have to ask if this latest request is just another opportunity for you to blatantly ignore feedback while ostensibly pretending to care?
Yes. Just like in the Sorc thread from a few weeks ago.

I'm honestly amazed they didn't steamroll ahead with the healer changes too. I guess 1 out of 3 isn't bad.

DanaMarschz's Avatar


DanaMarschz
05.06.2015 , 02:42 PM | #8
Dot spread is nice and all, but I went with this class because it was high sustained single target dps. Are we doing a 180 on that philosophy, and if so why?

DynamiCtagez's Avatar


DynamiCtagez
05.06.2015 , 02:44 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DanaMarschz View Post
Dot spread is nice and all, but I went with this class because it was high sustained single target dps. Are we doing a 180 on that philosophy, and if so why?
This. Nobody asked for a ****ed up DoT spread mechanic that would be broken if it would be stronger (see Shadows) but is entirely useless in its current state for PvP.

sumquy's Avatar


sumquy
05.06.2015 , 02:45 PM | #10
why did you force anni into the dot spreader template? nobody wanted it, and it's pretty plain at this point, everybody hates it. anni was always the highest single target dps against real bosses. the cost of this was no viability in pvp and weak dps in any target switching environment. AND EVERYBODY LOVED IT! it wasn't broken before, but since 3.0 the only conversations anybody have about it are how to fix it, when is it going to be fixed, why are the proposed fixes so lame... why....?
...how i learned to love the dot and other short stories.