New SWTOR Arena Ratings and Token Rewards Suggestion Thread.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
New SWTOR Arena Ratings and Token Rewards Suggestion Thread.

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DethlaHadyn

03.22.2015 , 10:00 AM \| #51	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by SlightlySychotic Oh, I'm under no delusion that the present Elo system is anything other than horrible. I'm just proposing something quick and easy that could probably be implemented next season. I'm Sure people would still call for a better rating system. There are just two problems with that: First, while people say they want a better rating system than what we have, threads like this make it abundantly clear that what people actually want is a perfect rating system. I'm not sure such a thing exists. If the rating system rewards wins more than losses then people complain that the system just rewards players who can play more (and some nonsense about how it disregards actual skill blah blah meh blah ). If you assign rating by individual performance (ie medals) the argument shifts to there being no decent metric to judge it (like medals ). Mind you, all these systems are arguably better than Elo but people get hung up on the imperfections. Meanwhile, BW just likely focuses on the disagreements and concludes Elo is perfectly fine as well. Which brings up the second issue: Elo is perfectly fine -- for groups. You see, Elo was designed for one-on-one contests but it can still probably be applied to organized groups -- ie guilds. Where it falls apart is when you try to apply it to individuals -- solo. And Alex Modney has made it perfectly clear he has nothing but contempt for solo players. We were outright denied access to ranked for almost two years and now they see fit to just gut the solo bronze tier of any substantial rewards. That's why Elo will never get fixed: doing so would be beneficial to solo players and he's consistently made it clear he views us as garbage. Good points. I refuse to resign the efforts and I believe that we indeed may refine this system, and at least get a response from them when we're ready to submit it for review. On that note, I'll tweak the percentage values for the losses and the Consecutives. Maybe I'll find more appropriate values tonight.

Potato_Chipz

03.22.2015 , 11:12 AM \| #52	Quote
good idea but bioware wont give it a try they dont give a **** about pvp

Corsin

03.22.2015 , 08:47 PM \| #53	Quote
Agreed with the OP Something like this needs to happen.
Currently Active On Server: Pot5: Malakith Character: Malakith S1 Allstar x3 S2 Allstar x2 S3 Allstar x2 S-everything else, irrelevant to win traders. Guild: <Black List>

DethlaHadyn

03.23.2015 , 07:09 PM \| #54	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by DethlaHadyn Proposed System Updated! I'd personally love to see an update that looks like this... Greetings fellow Rotworms and Frogdogs! Welcome to the New Tiered Arena Ratings and Token Rewards System! There have been some exciting changes to the way we approach Ranked PvP! Let me Introduce the new Proposed Tiered Rating System, complete with new Incentives and new Rewards! General Changes Information �All arenas still reward Commendations to purchase gear and still offer credits, However Grouped Ranked offers double the Comms, and double the credits! �New Tokens (Solo and Grouped) shall be granted with a win and by successfully completing the daily. The new Three Win Consecutives grant additional tokens and additional rating! �A win grants 10 generic rating and a token. (Solo or Grouped) Rating loss is a predetermined value based on your present tier (Grunts/Bronze/Silver/Gold). �Daily Three win quest grants bonus tokens and 100% generic rating bonus. �Three Win Consecutives grant bonus tokens and 300% generic rating bonus. Perpetual (Resets upon Completion). �A new Ranked Arena Vendor has been placed on the fleet and offers a variety of gear and items available. There are separate tiers of gear for Solo Ranked tokens and for Group Ranked tokens. Rating Changes Now here is the really exciting part. Unlike the old ELO system, we now have completely separate Ranked tiers that change in the way that a player gains and loses rating. These new tiers are also exclusive to the rank below and the next one above. In other words each player can only be faced against other players that share their Tier. Quick description looks like this: Everyone begins their Gladiatorial Career as an insignificant grunt who's been beating up mobs and a training dummy. The ratings all start from zero and the tiered process comes into play as you continue queing up to fight. Quick breakdown of the new tiers and baseline function, is as follows: Grunt tier 0-10 wins = -0 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 100). Bronze tier 10-25 wins = -10 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 250). Silver tier 25-75 wins = -15 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 750). Gold tier 75+ wins = -20 rating per loss GRUNTS 0-10 Wins. What we have enabled here, is a general starting stage for all new combatants to test their mettle. Newer players to the game are highly encouraged to que up and enjoy the excitement of the Arena! As a result, they are not punished for a loss, but may enter the Bronze tier after they have successful achieved 10 wins. (Or 100 Generic Rating) Now all players(and trolls alike) are stuck to remain as Arena Grunts, until they can prove that they are ready for the next level of competition. BRONZE TIER (100-250) GR Ok, so you made it out of basic training and are eager to continue your career. A loss now costs you -10 negative rating, so you will have to work hard to keep the Consecutive Wins quests resetting, and advance yourself up to the Silver Tier. SILVER TIER(250-750 GR) Now Here's where things get very interesting. A loss now costs you -15 negative rating, so bring your best to the Arena stage to advance to the next tier. You're almost there! GOLD TIER (750+ GR) Gold Tier is where this game's true Elite reign supreme. Once a player has earned +750 rating, they are grouped up only against other Gold Tiered players. A loss will cost you -20 negative rating, so don't be the team to get booted back down to the minor leagues... These games are thee main event! REWARDS Grunts receive commendations and credits... that's it Bronze tier receives (insert) Silver tier receives (insert) Gold tier receives (insert) Top 96 players with highest ratings receive (insert) ...alright, so how do we develop a system that will encourage competitive gameplay, boost participation, and completely disable trolls? I think we finally have the answer. Fact of the matter is, the old system I had proposed was good, but only for small quantities of matches(25 -50), and as the number of games played increased, we did infact see too much favoritism awarded to those who played more games, hence the integrity of win/loss ratios became blurry. Fact of the matter is...you can't cultivate quality performance ratings without having a rating decrease upon a loss. We can however create a system that will uproot the douchebaggery that plagues our current ELO system, and this is why I present to you this updated version now. It's funny actually, I had an old guildie look this over last night, and he said "Many players will not support your new suggested system, for they are much too comfortable with their ability to manipulate the one we have"...

Anyakaschala

03.23.2015 , 08:00 PM \| #55	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by DethlaHadyn ...alright, so how do we develop a system that will encourage competitive gameplay, boost participation, and completely disable trolls? I think we finally have the answer. Fact of the matter is, the old system I had proposed was good, but only for small quantities of matches(25 -50), and as the number of games played increased, we did infact see too much favoritism awarded to those who played more games, hence the integrity of win/loss ratios became blurry. Fact of the matter is...you can't cultivate quality performance ratings without having a rating decrease upon a loss. We can however create a system that will uproot the douchebaggery that plagues our current ELO system, and this is why I present to you this updated version now. It's funny actually, I had an old guildie look this over last night, and he said "Many players will not support your new suggested system, for they are much too comfortable with their ability to manipulate the one we have"... The biggest issue here that is still a massive problem is class balance. And in your new proposed system, you are basically creating your own ELO and doing what ELO is supposed to be doing, but it's not. ELO is supposed to bring like rated people together to go against like rated people, with a rating and fluctuates based on success or failure. I still maintain that this can't be done successfully in YOLO ranked. The population just doesn't support it. And if we had enough population for it, then ELO would likely be fine. And add, this does nothing at all to aid a sentinal/marauder, or the commando/merc, or the sniper/slinger. They are still going to be relegated to the lower tiers and don't have a chance at success and as such, the rewards, even if they are the best maurader in the game

DethlaHadyn

03.23.2015 , 08:26 PM \| #56	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Anyakaschala The biggest issue here that is still a massive problem is class balance. And in your new proposed system, you are basically creating your own ELO and doing what ELO is supposed to be doing, but it's not. ELO is supposed to bring like rated people together to go against like rated people, with a rating and fluctuates based on success or failure. I still maintain that this can't be done successfully in YOLO ranked. The population just doesn't support it. And if we had enough population for it, then ELO would likely be fine. And add, this does nothing at all to aid a sentinal/marauder, or the commando/merc, or the sniper/slinger. They are still going to be relegated to the lower tiers and don't have a chance at success and as such, the rewards, even if they are the best maurader in the game Don't lose sight of the other issues though, and remember this also would apply to Group Ranked. I implore you look at this part again: Grunt tier � 0-10 wins = -0 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 100). �Bronze tier � 10-25 wins = -10 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 250). �Silver tier � 25-75 wins = -15 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 750). �Gold tier � 75+ wins = -20 rating per loss So what we'd have is players trying out new "non-fotm"classes/specs and not suffering a huge penalty that will inevitably deter them from queing again. Additionally(and most importantly) Trolls would never be able to affect the capable players that earn victories (and consecutives), for they would technically have to earn the right to fight in the next tier. Which simply said, good players that win matches get pushed up into higher tiers and only fight players of the same tier. Also remember that the new "Three Consecutive Wins" bonuses grant even more rating in addition the generic rating(10) from a win. Ergo good players will rise the ranks faster. Combine the fact that with a new tokens system, players will want to keep queing and trying to win, so they may receive tokens to buy their desired items/gear. Finally, class balance will always be an elusive subject to pin down, but if we can get the devs to respond on this thread, we'll also have to keep faith that they'll tweak certain classes as well.

delta_leader_

03.24.2015 , 06:01 AM \| #57	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by DethlaHadyn Proposed System Updated! I'd personally love to see an update that looks like this... Greetings fellow Rotworms and Frogdogs! Welcome to the New Tiered Arena Ratings and Token Rewards System! There have been some exciting changes to the way we approach Ranked PvP! Let me Introduce the new Proposed Tiered Rating System, complete with new Incentives and new Rewards! General Changes Information �All arenas still reward Commendations to purchase gear and still offer credits, However Grouped Ranked offers double the Comms, and double the credits! �New Tokens (Solo and Grouped) shall be granted with a win and by successfully completing the daily. The new Three Win Consecutives grant additional tokens and additional rating! �A win grants 10 generic rating and a token. (Solo or Grouped) Rating loss is a predetermined value based on your present tier (Grunts/Bronze/Silver/Gold). �Daily Three win quest grants bonus tokens and 100% generic rating bonus. �Three Win Consecutives grant bonus tokens and 300% generic rating bonus. Perpetual (Resets upon Completion). �A new Ranked Arena Vendor has been placed on the fleet and offers a variety of gear and items available. There are separate tiers of gear for Solo Ranked tokens and for Group Ranked tokens. Rating Changes Now here is the really exciting part. Unlike the old ELO system, we now have completely separate Ranked tiers that change in the way that a player gains and loses rating. These new tiers are also exclusive to the rank below and the next one above. In other words each player can only be faced against other players that share their Tier. Quick description looks like this: Everyone begins their Gladiatorial Career as an insignificant grunt who's been beating up mobs and a training dummy. The ratings all start from zero and the tiered process comes into play as you continue queing up to fight. Quick breakdown of the new tiers and baseline function, is as follows: Grunt tier 0-10 wins = -0 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 100). Bronze tier 10-25 wins = -10 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 250). Silver tier 25-75 wins = -15 rating per loss (desired rating to achieve next level is 750). Gold tier 75+ wins = -20 rating per loss GRUNTS 0-10 Wins. What we have enabled here, is a general starting stage for all new combatants to test their mettle. Newer players to the game are highly encouraged to que up and enjoy the excitement of the Arena! As a result, they are not punished for a loss, but may enter the Bronze tier after they have successful achieved 10 wins. (Or 100 Generic Rating) Now all players(and trolls alike) are stuck to remain as Arena Grunts, until they can prove that they are ready for the next level of competition. BRONZE TIER (100-250) GR Ok, so you made it out of basic training and are eager to continue your career. A loss now costs you -10 negative rating, so you will have to work hard to keep the Consecutive Wins quests resetting, and advance yourself up to the Silver Tier. SILVER TIER(250-750 GR) Now Here's where things get very interesting. A loss now costs you -15 negative rating, so bring your best to the Arena stage to advance to the next tier. You're almost there! GOLD TIER (750+ GR) Gold Tier is where this game's true Elite reign supreme. Once a player has earned +750 rating, they are grouped up only against other Gold Tiered players. A loss will cost you -20 negative rating, so don't be the team to get booted back down to the minor leagues... These games are thee main event! REWARDS Grunts receive commendations and credits... that's it Bronze tier receives (insert) Silver tier receives (insert) Gold tier receives (insert) Top 96 players with highest ratings receive (insert) It looks pretty solid to me.. and way better then what we have right now. My only concern would be the same as always: Population You said people would fight only people from their exact tier, what if that tier was almost empty? Or let's say it's mid or end season, you start new (in grunts tier) but that tier has almost no player left because everyone advanced to bronze. Leaving you with only trolls or bads. But I would give it a try for sure. Can't really get much worse then now in my opinion.
T3M4: Marksman Sniper / Deception Assassin / Powertech / Sage / Operative / Marauder / Mercenary

DethlaHadyn

03.24.2015 , 11:32 AM \| #58	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by delta_leader_ It looks pretty solid to me.. and way better then what we have right now. My only concern would be the same as always: Population You said people would fight only people from their exact tier, what if that tier was almost empty? Or let's say it's mid or end season, you start new (in grunts tier) but that tier has almost no player left because everyone advanced to bronze. Leaving you with only trolls or bads. But I would give it a try for sure. Can't really get much worse then now in my opinion. Well remember that even if you start later in the season and are stuck with too many grunts, you don't start losing rating until you've reached the bronze tier. So in essence, you'll be earning a few comms until you hit 100 generic rating, which in this case is ten wins.

DethlaHadyn

03.24.2015 , 11:33 PM \| #59	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by delta_leader_ My only concern would be the same as always: Population One question would be "Why are our Ranked populations so low?? Maybe Applied ELO Theory sucks with: -Trolls -Poorly geared teammates -Imbalanced teams Reasons People give up on YoloQue: -Trolls(Did I mention Trolls?) -Improperly geared teammates(no exp requirements) -Guilds don't want to lose rating trying out different comps and suffering harsh negative rating penalties for it. This new system would cater to every issue presented above and resolve each and every one of them. Here's how we additionally address the population concerns. So what we've had in previous seasons(usually) are some really awesome end of season awards, that people(usually)get excited about(IF they have a great first 10 matches). Now when you incorporate a token system, you'll have players queing up to purchase things that they want...I can't stress how incredibly easy that is to understand. Example would be(with bioware's co-operation) a Ranked Arena Vendor on the fleet that would have a few items/mounts and a few different sets of awesome looking gear. Now you'll have people trying to win repeatedly, for they get tokens only with a win. After they get enough tokens to buy whatever it is.. then they may continue on an alt...or they may shoot for the Top 96... Important to note yet again, is that there isn't any way for trolls to effectively "hurt" another player's rating with this new system(especially in the higher tiers). Inevitably we all suffer when the population is small, for the disparities between classes and especially the players themselves, gets blown way out of proportion. I think that if people have a new system that lets them purchase want they want while they work for it, coupled with a system that would in essence protect the players, we would see the Ranked population increase exponentially and it would stay that way for the majority of the season.

Transcendent

03.25.2015 , 02:34 AM \| #60	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by DethlaHadyn A renown top-tiered player would probably develop an alt until the competition was getting too close for comfort on the Leaderboards. Correct, it'll just encourage smurfs. Others have said it, this system would simply reward those players who have more time to spare and can simply spam games. Not really an indication of ability. I think the real issue lays with resolving class balance (.... ....) and the lack of a large enough player pool due to no cross faction / cross server etc. Those are the main points that need to be fixed first and foremost. If they don't want to fix class balance, then bring back 8v8. Just saying.
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