GTN Scam Solution - Please Consider This Bioware

Did the poster of that item on the GTN advertise one item and actually deliver a different item? NO.

Did the poster of that item on the GTN post it for one price but actually charge a different price? NO.

The poster posted an item for a set price and did not change that price and delivered the item that the purchaser bought. The seller did not deliver a different item. The seller listed an item for a given price and the buyer agreed to buy that item for that set price. The seller received the asking price (less commission) and the buyer received the item they agreed to buy, for the price they agreed to pay. It sure seems like simple straightforward business transaction to me. I see no fraudulent acts or operations, nor do I see any deceptive acts or operations.

It all comes down do this what is reasonable. For example:

1. Put a red button on a table.
2. Verbally tell people to not push the button.
3. Put a sign on the button that says (in all languages, of course) "DO NOT PUSH".
4. Lock the button in a plexiglass shell but the key taped under the chair.

What will happen? Some people will jump through all of the hurdles to push the button anyway. It doesn't even matter what the button does... nothing, everything, buys tickets, launches a rocket. You can't push the button without going through reasonable steps.

The question is what is reasonable to ask of the people who designed the button to prevent people from pushing the button and what is reasonable to expect the person who wants to push it to not actually push it?

What's in place on the GTN right now is reasonable.

Still don't think so? Ok, let's add more layers:

1. Put above example into a locked room.
2. The password to get into this room is on Paga 101, Line 6, Fifth Word of <Some Random Book>.
3. The book is buried in a snowbank outside.
4. You have no pants.

It doesn't matter how many layers of protection are implemented, someone will still push the button, and all that's being done is to inconvenience the vast majority for the incompetence of the few... since when did the needs of the few or the one outweigh the needs of the many?

The bottom line is nothing anyone does can ultimately protect people from themselves, and they shouldn't have to, there is a reasonable expectation that people can at least function by themselves without being covered in bubble wrap.


Someone posted an example of street signs all over the place. Ok, so there are STOP signs and speed limit signs everywhere, right? Do people always obey these signs that are there for the safety of everyone? No. So what's next for this scenario?... Paper cars? Railroad gates at every intersection that drop a giant wooden beam in front of vehicles? Where does it all end?

Some people want to put up a mandatory 3-second-delay popup that gives you a last chance, right? However, they'll also have to make sure it auto-clicks after the delay so the rest of the people can still enjoy the GTN process. So, here's what will happen:

• The three seconds won't be long enough, they'll demand five seconds, then seven seconds, and so on.
• Soon, one popup won't be enough, so they'll demand a second one, then a third, and so on.
• Since people still aren't getting the hint, they'll demand a one-hour "purchase refund" on all (of their own) mistakes, but as you can guess, that will very quickly not be long enough so they'll demand two hours, then four hours, and so on.

Is it reasonable to put some safeguards on the GTN? Yes, of course, and there are. Is it reasonable to expect people to be able to think for themselves and use those tools on the GTN? Yes, of course.


Enough is enough. Let it go. There are enough safeguards in place to be considered reasonable enough for people to use and that's that. If there are a few people that just don't "get it", well, I'm sorry for them but they shouldn't being the ones trying to selfishly (under the guise of helping everyone) change things to suit their own personal needs.

Thank-you.

PS - Have you ever noticed how many posts screaming "SCAM" usually also have "I was tired" or "I was drunk" or "I was blurry-eyed from playing SWTOR too long" or any combination of those? That says a lot right there about what desperate excuses people will turn to just to avoid taking any responsibility for their own actions.

if you buy the wrong item or buy a item that is to high price that you have buy on the GTN its your own fault for not looking good.
you can blame what you what but it still chance noting.

and you cant fix something what is not broken.
there is noting that bioware or EA can do for a player mistake.
if i buy the wrong item or a to high price item then its my own fault and i not blame bioware or EA for it then i blame my own and i most learn to deal with it.

the credits i have spent on that wrong item or to high price item is gone.

i still cant understand why this topic continues on a mistake that we only can blame ourselves for doing it?

You're just off on all points. And you're recycling an entire list of old BS arguments that I've already shot down multiple times in multiple threads, but here we go again ...

The buyer most definitely didn't agree to pay MILLIONS of credits for something that was worth probably 25K credits.

We're not talking about blame, we're talking about preventing GTN buying accidents that are entirely preventable with a minor change to the Purchase Confirmation Dialog. Blame is not an applicable concept to this issue. It's only about whether something CAN be done to fix the problem.

You saying there's no other reason is quite a bold lie. IF the Purchase Confirmation Dialog is enhanced in a slight way, it'll stop these catastrophic GTN buying mistakes... thus, the Purchase Confirmation Dialog is inadequate and obviously should have had a better design to start with. And are you going to be able to come up with an intelligent-sounding reason why GTN sellers seem to have this repeated pattern of listing items worth probably about 15K for an insane price such as 15 million?

That's not even a debate point. It has nothing to do with whether anything changes halfway through the purchase... it has to do with the INTENT of the seller and whether there's any tricky strategy being employed by the seller to cause the purchase error.

The only tools that qualify as buyer protection are the tools that happen automatically, without the buyer having to do anything extra. It doesn't help solve the problem if the buyer only COULD use the tools to prevent purchase mistakes. What you're saying is that you'd rather leave the GTN feature in a state where buyers are only protected if they're willing to learn ahead of time to protect themSELVES. How asinine... how's that working out for the player base? Not too well, in case you didn't notice!

There's a Purchase Confirmation Dialog that's allowed to be switched off entirely and that allows the 'OK' button to be clicked as soon as the dialog appears in view, before the buyer could have logistically even checked the price. Is that the Purchase Confirmation Dialog you're talking about?

...and the buyer verifies & finalizes the purchase via the Purchase Confirmation Dialog. Why do you leave off that last step hoping no one will consider the entirety of the purchase process? The LAST STEP will always be the finalization of the purchase, that step where the buyer is supposed to have an opportunity to verify the purchase before it's finalized and can never be undone. The Purchase Confirmation Dialog IS that last step of the purchase process. If there are purchase finalization issues, then the Purchase Confirmation Dialog is where changes need to be made in order to fix the purchase process.

Nor would there be. Did you happen to even read through my suggested fix for this problem? The only thing that changes is the Purchase Confirmation Dialog has some text change color to a nice bright & noticeable color, and the 'OK' button isn't clickable for 3 seconds (for any purchase over 250K credits).

You're facetiously mis-characterizing the entire problem. You pretend like it's the same group of players making GTN mistakes over and over ... yet I doubt that any players have lost millions of credits on a mistaken GTN purchase more than once. It's always "fresh meat" that gets tricked by the GTN listings and buys those horrifically overpriced items and loses millions of credits. Almost no one starts out knowing how to not make these mistakes on the GTN.

What you're effectively suggesting is that the game should continue to throw new SWToR GTN users to the wolves, and allow the pattern of catastrophic GTN errors to continue. When a simple fix would prevent probably 100% of those types of catastrophic errors for good.


I'm not sure why anyone's still bothering to argue against this. A precedent has already been set in the game, that buyers need to be protected from instances of mistaken purchases. Any purchase from NPC vendors can be sold back to get back the credits or commendations from the mistaken purchase. Since on the GTN the sellers are all other players rather than NPCs, the item can't just be returned for the credits/comms back, so the entire solution has to focus on the prevention of mistaken purchases rather than on the return of mistaken purchases. This means an enhanced Purchase Confirmation Dialog exactly as I've described in my suggestion thread.

Yes. I would rather use /trade. Regardless of reliability. Might actually be better for me anyway, trade mats I don't use for the ones I do use.

Why, you ask (or don't ask, because I'll tell you anyway)?

Because popups. I have been trained to ignore popups after years of those warnings about popups causing viruses. As a result, I am a paranoid shopper, and I use the tools we have, right from the start.

Buying mats? Set a max price, then nothing beyond a price I don't want to pay is excluded from the search. Then I don't lose millions (if I had millions).

But you're only going to quote part of my post, and not talk about the rest of my posts on this subject across other threads, so why am I bothering? I'm just another troll/ignoramus/idiot/"must be a scammer".

This thread is a sad testament to the state of our society.

If you are too dumb to read something before you click it and understand what you are reading you should not be playing this game. As in, you are not intelligent enough to play this game.

Now when people do less than smart things. They like to blame others. Because its not like IM stupid! No thats impossible. Someone must have scammed me. Im not THAT dumb.

you are.

/thread

There is no scam, there are only misclicks. (there is no death, there is the force)

The developers dont have time to cater to the LOWEST common denominator and babysit everyone.

waa im not capable enough to use the gtn make security to save me from myself herpa. derp

Devs please dont waste my 15$ a month putting diapers on fools. ty.

thank you for that early morning giggle! ^_^

You did my work for me. Excellent. GTN prices are none of those.

Viruses?? Dear god that's only in a WEB BROWSER that popups are dangerous...

Of course your viewpoint isn't much different than the other people here trying to make valid arguments against improving the Purchase Confirmation Dialog enough that it'll end the GTN buyer errors that are causing players to lose millions of credits at a time.

A 3 second delay, only on purchases 250K+ is NOTHING !
No one even makes a large number of purchases in one day for more than 250K+ credits!!!
We're talking about one of the most miniscule tradeoffs imaginable !

.

I read something in someone's sig that applies to people supposedly "scammed" by their own unwillingness to pay attention to what they are doing: