Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Shoulder Cannon nerf Game Update 3.1.1 PTS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Shoulder Cannon nerf Game Update 3.1.1 PTS

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
02.07.2015 , 12:58 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by gblXsw View Post
That would be horrific if it was true. Except it's not.

Wether you do X damage every 1.5 minutes spread over 3.5 seconds or spread over 10.5 seconds is no difference in dps (if you were actually using shoulder cannon on cooldown, which you probably are not, a very marginal and barely noticeable decrease would result from the fact that the ability goes on cooldown seven seconds later, so it's off cooldown seven seconds later too).
Let X be a constant. is the following equation true?
X/3.5 = X/10.5
The value this spec brings is burst. Evaluating the sustained damage SC brings is pointless. The point of the cooldown change is not the effect to sustained damage but how frequenty it can be used in a single round of ranked arena.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

AdamLKvist's Avatar


AdamLKvist
02.07.2015 , 02:46 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
Let X be a constant. is the following equation true?
X/3.5 = X/10.5
The value this spec brings is burst. Evaluating the sustained damage SC brings is pointless. The point of the cooldown change is not the effect to sustained damage but how frequenty it can be used in a single round of ranked arena.
Unfortunately the person you quoted is correct whereas you are not. Over the new duration of SC you will have finished a proper "rotation" - the only difference is that the burst wont be horribly, terribly, stupidly frontloaded. This is a fix.

As for the CD increase I shall not comment because I'm not sure what that will do to the class. But defending the ICD of shoulder canon is a right reserved for those who thought they were good when they had 9K+ DPS the first few GCDs on target. Newsflash, it wasnt impressive skill that got you several thousand DPS ahead of all other classes in game.

AP keeps great single target burst. They'll be okay.
The Forgotten Legacy
Ancestry/Mythology
TOFN

headshot_hendo's Avatar


headshot_hendo
02.07.2015 , 06:18 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by AdamLKvist View Post
Unfortunately the person you quoted is correct whereas you are not. Over the new duration of SC you will have finished a proper "rotation" - the only difference is that the burst wont be horribly, terribly, stupidly frontloaded. This is a fix.

As for the CD increase I shall not comment because I'm not sure what that will do to the class. But defending the ICD of shoulder canon is a right reserved for those who thought they were good when they had 9K+ DPS the first few GCDs on target. Newsflash, it wasnt impressive skill that got you several thousand DPS ahead of all other classes in game.

AP keeps great single target burst. They'll be okay.
Ok so something very simple you are missing is:
If all shoulder cannons are dumped in 3.5 seconds the CD starts after 3.5 seconds.
If it takes 10.5 seconds to unload the cool down starts and entire 7 seconds later.
This extends the cool down that additional amount of time.
So with the ICD set to slower you lose damage per second.

The point is they double nerfed SC. They raised the CD by 30 seconds as well as the extra 7 seconds it requires to unload now. This extends the CD timer to 2 mins 7 seconds. (DPS is Damager Per SECOND). With the extended ICD the nerf would have been sufficient enough to lower burst and dps, but BW went he extra mile to nerf it more.

ExeErdna's Avatar


ExeErdna
02.07.2015 , 06:49 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Groncho View Post
dunno why u guys are wasting time
All the the fixes and changes in combat since 2.8 have been mostly oriented to PVE
anyway just nerf snipers and this could be good or ask for cartel items and they will react
It's still silly to call this is PVE nerf without Scorch for the most part Pyros suck in PVE. I played it on and off with AP and for PVE AP was so much better for most of the story content. BW must have some disgruntled workers that hate Bounty Hunters for no reason.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
02.07.2015 , 07:32 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by ExeErdna View Post
It's still silly to call this is PVE nerf without Scorch for the most part Pyros suck in PVE. I played it on and off with AP and for PVE AP was so much better for most of the story content. BW must have some disgruntled workers that hate Bounty Hunters for no reason.
I'm pretty sure by PvE he means operations since in endgame operations Pyro parses better on the majority of the current bosses.

Generally speaking classes are not balanced around ease of clearing solo content since in those cases its just easier to adjust said content then the classes. Although there are some solo considerations as evidenced by the first tier utility that every class has that increases the damage of some AoE skill by 25%.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Zadtro's Avatar


Zadtro
02.07.2015 , 07:46 PM | #76
Yeah great, a nerf to shoulder cannon, that is fair, it was needed.

So is that it for the nerfs or are we going to deal with the bigger class inbalance like sorcs or sins?

headshot_hendo's Avatar


headshot_hendo
02.07.2015 , 07:58 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
I'm pretty sure by PvE he means operations since in endgame operations Pyro parses better on the majority of the current bosses.

Generally speaking classes are not balanced around ease of clearing solo content since in those cases its just easier to adjust said content then the classes. Although there are some solo considerations as evidenced by the first tier utility that every class has that increases the damage of some AoE skill by 25%.
Pyro didnt parse very high in PVE it was one of the lowest specs like 2nd or 3rd lowest parsing.

Hei_Atzfel's Avatar


Hei_Atzfel
02.07.2015 , 08:30 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
The part the OP didn't mention is the fact that they nerfed plasmatech on top of that. Because you know one of the most underpowered specs in the game clearly needs more nerfs.
Bioware logic:

"Hey guys, Hatred is broken as all get out while Pyro is useless. Let's leave Hatred alone and nerf Pyro."

other Bioware employee's:

"Excellent! Let's do it!"

egriz's Avatar


egriz
02.07.2015 , 08:48 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by AdamLKvist View Post

AP keeps great single target burst. They'll be okay.
Let me ask you a question, because I don't think that AP is okay even atm (talking about yolo ranked).
Let's say that there is an 'average class' which has average dps and average survival skills considering every class in the game. Now.. pt/vg has much worse survivability, so don't you think it would be fair for it to have higher burst to compensate? They will die first in a match (even you said that before), so they NEED higher dps for their team to even have a chance at winning.
The 'average class' can live longer -> higher damage output altogether,
the vanguard can't live that long -> need that higher burst.

Aside from this note, right now with the 3.5 sec / 7 sc, a vanguard could heal 35%hp which is the key for survival when focused. Adrenaline rush is a joke, even a single dps can outdamage its healing, not to mention a team, many cases it doesn't even trigger (in a fully modded gear a ~15k hit can kill a vg without proccing the skill).
What happens with the change?
We lose burst. Ok.
We lose a way of quickly regenerating hp... which means we might not survive long enough to use all 7 sc.
We lose the damage from the unused shoulder cannons + the damage we might have caused if we lived longer.

And don't even try to convince me the burst will be high enough still..
I've played more than 400 arenas, it is a miracle if the opposing team doesn't have a stealther and another miracle if they don't target the vg/pt first (Unless there's a mando/merc of course).
They will have the upper hand, they will attack first and unless you are a veteran and know how to survive just a bit longer, you won't have time to cast the big hitter skills or can even be gcdd. The burst won't matter then now, would it?

Conclusion: if you want to take away the burst, take it. But give us something in return to make us live longer.. give us something to compensate! Don't nerf the burst AND survivability both!

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
02.07.2015 , 09:32 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by egriz View Post
Let me ask you a question, because I don't think that AP is okay even atm (talking about yolo ranked).
Let's say that there is an 'average class' which has average dps and average survival skills considering every class in the game. Now.. pt/vg has much worse survivability, so don't you think it would be fair for it to have higher burst to compensate? They will die first in a match (even you said that before), so they NEED higher dps for their team to even have a chance at winning.
The 'average class' can live longer -> higher damage output altogether,
the vanguard can't live that long -> need that higher burst.

Aside from this note, right now with the 3.5 sec / 7 sc, a vanguard could heal 35%hp which is the key for survival when focused. Adrenaline rush is a joke, even a single dps can outdamage its healing, not to mention a team, many cases it doesn't even trigger (in a fully modded gear a ~15k hit can kill a vg without proccing the skill).
What happens with the change?
We lose burst. Ok.
We lose a way of quickly regenerating hp... which means we might not survive long enough to use all 7 sc.
We lose the damage from the unused shoulder cannons + the damage we might have caused if we lived longer.

And don't even try to convince me the burst will be high enough still..
I've played more than 400 arenas, it is a miracle if the opposing team doesn't have a stealther and another miracle if they don't target the vg/pt first (Unless there's a mando/merc of course).
They will have the upper hand, they will attack first and unless you are a veteran and know how to survive just a bit longer, you won't have time to cast the big hitter skills or can even be gcdd. The burst won't matter then now, would it?

Conclusion: if you want to take away the burst, take it. But give us something in return to make us live longer.. give us something to compensate! Don't nerf the burst AND survivability both!
If you take a look at the leader boards from the last three seasons, PTs/VGs are indeed an "average" class and that was with less burst than they would have with these changes.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think these changes should have been an either/or and not a both. But I don't think it's going to be quite as bad as what some make out for the class.