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RIP craft / economy


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.24.2015 , 11:26 PM | #291
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqsko View Post
If you do not have any other options for your immediate need, you are forced to pay those prices on the GTN, or don't craft while you wait for mats to come in.
That term, "immediate need" holds the KEY to the eternal struggle between sellers and consumers. Players that want stuff RAHHT NAOO is what allows sellers to drive prices up.

I remember when Campaign gear was the top gear in the game and could be RE'ed for a schematic. Players were selling it for big bucks. I could have afforded buying some of this gear, but I felt it was too expensive so I didn't. Instead I ran a bunch of group finder pugs, got Black Hole commendations, and bought the gear I needed. Over time. No rush.

It's the same thing here. Lets say some crafter with a zillion credits tries to corner the market, buying up all Midlithe under 90K and relisting it to "force" people to pay that price. Solution: Don't freaking buy it.

That "immediate need" you thought you had? It's not really as immediate as you think. Run some flashpoints instead, do some dailies, do some PvP, run your own crafting missions, etc. The price WILL fall if people stop buying it. Because demand went below supply.

Avinler's Avatar


Avinler
01.25.2015 , 03:07 AM | #292
A couple quick thoughts to add...

Unless I missed a change, the crit rate on missions that are orange font (hard difficulty level), is only 15%, which applies to Rich Yield missions at 500 level. So you have to adjust the math down a little on crit rate which increases the unit cost slightly, but crits for all but Diplomacy include a schematic that can be sold to the vendor to defray some cost as well.

The GTN only lists offer prices at which someone is willing to sell items. The only bid side, in financial market terms, on the GTN are actual purchases. I can list an item for infinite credits, but that's meaningless until someone pays it. There was plenty wrong with GTN prices before and after the slot machines, but this isn't one of them.
Avin

Founder, Retired GM of <Fortitude> on Jedi Covenant
& Andrew on SWTOR Economics

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
01.25.2015 , 08:07 AM | #293
Quote: Originally Posted by Voveca View Post
Ok did another test:

200 x Contraband Cartel Chip

gave me

25x Scraps: Scavenged Scraps
27x Scraps: Assorted Droid Parts
29x Scraps: Jawa Junk
+
27x Banned Holovids
18x Prohibited Medical Supplies
12x Confiskated Artwork
2x Cartel Market Certificate


Considering some hits just return the chip ... and one use is roughly 6 sec ... it could took like 30 minutes ... thats half of a mission time, which has to actually crit, to give you 3 measly purples (only if its bountiful+). Suppose the crit chance is let's say 10% (really no idea here) and u go 6 chars at a time ... it would take crew skill missions approximately so you have about 47% chance that during one hour you hit 3 purple mats ... so lets say average 1 and half purple mat / hour ... costing you about 30k (20k per piece)

versus the slot mashine

where you get around 60 mats / hour ... costing you exactly 100k (1,6k per piece)

So using slot mashine is 40 times faster way to obtain the mats and it's 12.5 times cheaper (also u re getting universal ones and of course not crew skill dependent, also no need to train or develop anything...)

Seems hardly fair to me ...

Can we perhaps get an official statement about the matter if its intended or what?!
Faster, but more expensive and we all know how massively cheap crafters are and how greedy they are....but then again, players in general can be impatient and tend to take the quick solution, i personally gather the materials myself, i send out the companions for the underworld metal and i gather the scavenging stuff myself, crafting is not dead exactly, its just fracked up because most crafters don't have a clue on what an item is worth, they just craft an item that might cost them not even 1000cr to make and then slap a price of 10000cr onto it and put it up for Auction......yet they wonder why crafting is as dead as it is.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
01.25.2015 , 08:22 AM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
That term, "immediate need" holds the KEY to the eternal struggle between sellers and consumers. Players that want stuff RAHHT NAOO is what allows sellers to drive prices up.

I remember when Campaign gear was the top gear in the game and could be RE'ed for a schematic. Players were selling it for big bucks. I could have afforded buying some of this gear, but I felt it was too expensive so I didn't. Instead I ran a bunch of group finder pugs, got Black Hole commendations, and bought the gear I needed. Over time. No rush.

It's the same thing here. Lets say some crafter with a zillion credits tries to corner the market, buying up all Midlithe under 90K and relisting it to "force" people to pay that price. Solution: Don't freaking buy it.

That "immediate need" you thought you had? It's not really as immediate as you think. Run some flashpoints instead, do some dailies, do some PvP, run your own crafting missions, etc. The price WILL fall if people stop buying it. Because demand went below supply.
Could not have said it better.

Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
Faster, but more expensive and we all know how massively cheap crafters are and how greedy they are....but then again, players in general can be impatient and tend to take the quick solution, i personally gather the materials myself, i send out the companions for the underworld metal and i gather the scavenging stuff myself, crafting is not dead exactly, its just fracked up because most crafters don't have a clue on what an item is worth, they just craft an item that might cost them not even 1000cr to make and then slap a price of 10000cr onto it and put it up for Auction......yet they wonder why crafting is as dead as it is.
I guess we are going to renew this debate once again...

You know what? It's not even worth it. If it makes you feel superior, believe whatever you want.
The Ortzid Legacy on The Harbinger
Car'beerd (Guardian) Dalkery (Scoundrel) Blairnah (Sage) Daellia (Merc) and 11 other characters
Understanding Crew Skills / High End Schematics / Best Crew Skills / Crew Skill Money Making / Reverse Engineering Rules / SWTOR Story to date

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
01.25.2015 , 05:20 PM | #295
Well i really hope that 30 pages of ************ and complaining and whining about the damn slot machine , prompting byoware to nerf it into the damn ground has made all the damn "crafters" happy , this besides the other flood of mewling on other threads i saw in this sub-forum.

****s sake , i mean , couldn't you at least try to provide a damn constructive sollution to the problem , besides the consistent ************ ? For instance , instead of dropping the rates into purgatory levels of low , they could have placed a fixed amount of coins that you can use on the machine for X amount of days , like the lockout that operations have. This , along with increasing the price for the coins ( which they did anyways ) , would have stopped the spamming and still kept the damn thing useful.

Now the damn thing is useless , unless you want to bang your head against the damn monitor , trying to the get the robot chicken mounts , it has no other use once you hit legend with the reputation faction , so congrats to all the assbags that complained about it so much , that they made it useless.

I think I've used that thing about 4 times in total , since it got released and got about 20 purple scrap , so i could buy the mat related to augments and that was about it , since the damn missions are ridiculously expensive and i only have slicing on 1 character , it was a way to supplement my augmenting needs to a certain degree , but now , with all the complaining around that thing , you managed to get it to be useless , i can only pity the people who actually purchased the machine from the GTN for a few solid million creds.
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...61#post7731161

psandak's Avatar


psandak
01.25.2015 , 06:49 PM | #296
Quote: Originally Posted by Kayriel View Post
Well i really hope that 30 pages of ************ and complaining and whining about the damn slot machine , prompting byoware to nerf it into the damn ground has made all the damn "crafters" happy , this besides the other flood of mewling on other threads i saw in this sub-forum.
Please do not lump all "crafters" together. I (and others) were firmly in the "wait and see" camp.
The Ortzid Legacy on The Harbinger
Car'beerd (Guardian) Dalkery (Scoundrel) Blairnah (Sage) Daellia (Merc) and 11 other characters
Understanding Crew Skills / High End Schematics / Best Crew Skills / Crew Skill Money Making / Reverse Engineering Rules / SWTOR Story to date

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
01.25.2015 , 06:54 PM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by Kayriel View Post
Well i really hope that 30 pages of ************ and complaining and whining about the damn slot machine , prompting byoware to nerf it into the damn ground has made all the damn "crafters" happy , this besides the other flood of mewling on other threads i saw in this sub-forum.

****s sake , i mean , couldn't you at least try to provide a damn constructive sollution to the problem , besides the consistent ************ ? For instance , instead of dropping the rates into purgatory levels of low , they could have placed a fixed amount of coins that you can use on the machine for X amount of days , like the lockout that operations have. This , along with increasing the price for the coins ( which they did anyways ) , would have stopped the spamming and still kept the damn thing useful.

Now the damn thing is useless , unless you want to bang your head against the damn monitor , trying to the get the robot chicken mounts , it has no other use once you hit legend with the reputation faction , so congrats to all the assbags that complained about it so much , that they made it useless.

I think I've used that thing about 4 times in total , since it got released and got about 20 purple scrap , so i could buy the mat related to augments and that was about it , since the damn missions are ridiculously expensive and i only have slicing on 1 character , it was a way to supplement my augmenting needs to a certain degree , but now , with all the complaining around that thing , you managed to get it to be useless , i can only pity the people who actually purchased the machine from the GTN for a few solid million creds.
Not all crafters were complaining about the slot machine. I would suggest you check the forums to see that. I am a Master Craftsman and yet I suggested we wait and see what happened. In fact one of my posts suggested that we give it a while as people tend to get bored and move on to something else.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Guild Roleplays: http://republicexplorerscorp.enjin.com/activity
Referral Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/vLlZlR

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
01.25.2015 , 06:57 PM | #298
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
Faster, but more expensive and we all know how massively cheap crafters are and how greedy they are....but then again, players in general can be impatient and tend to take the quick solution, i personally gather the materials myself, i send out the companions for the underworld metal and i gather the scavenging stuff myself, crafting is not dead exactly, its just fracked up because most crafters don't have a clue on what an item is worth, they just craft an item that might cost them not even 1000cr to make and then slap a price of 10000cr onto it and put it up for Auction......yet they wonder why crafting is as dead as it is.
Wrong. Most of the crafters I know don't do this. In fact the ones I know actually craft items and give it to people in the guild that needs it. I have always crafted for my boyfriend and my guild with no charge to them. You may have seen a few crafters that have marked things up but in general most of the crafters are marking them at a price that is correct for the mats they have to gather, especially the purple ones, since you cannot harvest those. Those have to be gathered by mission only.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Guild Roleplays: http://republicexplorerscorp.enjin.com/activity
Referral Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/vLlZlR

JonnyRay's Avatar


JonnyRay
01.26.2015 , 09:59 AM | #299
Quote: Originally Posted by ScarletBlaze View Post
Not all crafters were complaining about the slot machine. I would suggest you check the forums to see that. I am a Master Craftsman and yet I suggested we wait and see what happened. In fact one of my posts suggested that we give it a while as people tend to get bored and move on to something else.
I wouldn't consider myself a "master" crafter like Scarlet and Psandak are, but I was in this boat as well. Tried to be a voice of reason here and there, but as is typical in online forums, reasonable discussions are typically drowned out by emotional ones.

I finally gave up and was trying to encourage those who thought crafting was ruined to stop doing it. Figuring it would mean less competition for me in the end.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
01.26.2015 , 12:43 PM | #300
Newsflash : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=793097
Well, sort of.

Listening to vocal crafters apparingly makes a lot people very bitter -
- people those vocal crafters haven't even heard off ...

Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
The whole slot machine argument is about 100 times bigger than the mids PVP argument. Reading the first couple pages of general forums you'd think the slots machines were the most important thing in the game and nothing else exists.
Complex minds
will create
Complex problems.