Congratulations. You just killed sm ops

Never considered TC an Ops and i despise TC with a passion. But that is a personal preference and your point is taken. However outside of 1 boss fight (torque) I don't find these ops overtuned i didn't find Bulo overtuned in 16 man before the nerf. And outside of 1 boss (underlurker) I there isn't many bugs with most of the fights. at least the ones I have come across in 16 man. Most of the wipes I see is due to people not paying attention to mechanics. In terms of Ultimate rewards, there are still about the same outside of the fact that SnV has 2 more bosses. You also have to remember that 16 man GF didn't give Ultimates like it does now. so if you factor in the GF rewards with the rewards you got when 2.0 launched. Rewards in terms of comms are roughtly the same.

Edit: Also do you ever wonder why Classics were run all the time, at least more so than now? None of them gave out ultimates minus the classic weekly. However they were run all the time because the first 2 ops (EV and KP) were cake walks to do even before 2.0. How many PUGs actually did there classic runs through EC HM/NiM? The reason I bring this up because this still goes to the problem I see in terms of PUGs and more casual players, which is the content before didn't challenge them to better themselves. Now with this time around many of the mechanics in HMs for the new Ops are so differnet from their storymode version (Op 9, Thrasher, CZ, Brontes, the Dread Council) that the gap between of required knowledge of the fights were so far apart from the two difficulties that it has handicaped a portion of the community. SMs should prepare you for HMs and HMs should prepare you for NiMs. However the 2.0 cycle didn't do that. Now there is a group of players who have content they were not forced to prepare for with the SMs.

Now is this Bioware's fault for not putting in mechanics to prepare them for it, Yes to a certain extent. But I believe we as a community have failed the casual players. Calling them noobs, turning them away when they don't meet what we considered required game mechanic knowledge. I believe it falls more on us rather than Bioware to bring these players up to the level of content, instead of asking for Bioware to bring down the level of content to the players.

I don't necessarily think that's the issue. People ran EV/KP all the time for the weekly classic ops not because it was easy (although that is very much a major playing factor) but because it was quick. You could do EV in like 20-30 minutes. It was the perfect thing to run when trying to kill time... and you didn't even need a full roster of players to complete it.

Difficulty aside, the major factor behind why people don't want to do the "new" classic ops is simply because they take too long. If they were somehow shorter... the difficulty would be irrelevant. People would cope. As long as they had the possibility of going in, going out and being done.

Now, I've been getting in pugs for HM S&V and TFB... and we do just fine. It just takes HOURS to do this stuff. And that's only to earn a measly 10 ultimate comms.

It begs the question... "Why spend hours putting up with pugs in a HM when you could be spending those hours progressing through the new content?" Especially since doing that new content is giving you better gear than what you can even buy with ultimate comms!

Basically... the entire rewards system is all out of whack in 3.0. The content that is ran is largely not giving out the proper tier of rewards. It's quite obvious that loot was merely an after thought when they put this patch on live. The entire 55hm FPs dropping better comms than 60hm FPs is proof of that.

I disagree to your statement yea I believe am not the best player in the game and I am casual but EA didn't even give me a chance to get any ulti coms at all in these two new expansions I have to pug to run a group and I yet to complete any of the new Operations in 16m even after they fixed the second boss, I know how mechanics work and I Know how to play my toon just because I play as a casual base dosen't mean I am a bad player it just means I have no time to spend on it.

Many casual players also have no time due to heavy work schedules and family what my complaint is about as well as many others I just want to join a pug group via groupfinder and complete the damn op already and get some gear on the way and have fun with it not making it a major task out of it.

That is why they have 3 different challenge levels SM for casuals to get their coms, HM for players that like that challenge and NiM modes for players that like that grind and challenge as well.

I un subbed because the fact remains they totally ruined it for casual players cause everything that is surrounding us is all basic coms and everyone by a month that this expac has been out were at least in the elite gear already having 2 operations that appears to be impossible to do in 16 man and not enough coms for the weekly to gain any crap ulti gear anyway.

My point in this that I am not paying for a game like many others are to stand around in gaining nothing at all.

Like buying a coffee and a burger with not what u want in it do you consider that a waste of money or complain about it?

This was my original point. I don't care about the comms. Elite is fine for me. I do run the occasional HM, and that has been sufficient to get set gear on my main(s). I only want to run the content. I have found that a pretty major majority of players will not play if there is no reward at the end. Weekly fp's, random gf, classic ops, etc..gave ultimates before the 3.0.2 patch. Now 2 broken ops give them out. Have 172 set pieces drop in Sm SnV/TFB/DF/DP...or even 186 since it is older gear now. People will on e again queue and pug, and the HM/NiM can still say that they have much better gear than the rest of us. I will mention once again, that running voidstar in pvp will now give a higher tier of gear than it did before, and the mechanics, nor the difficulty changed. Do something similar for pve content and its' player base.

This as a major reason for me also.

How often have people not wanted to take new players to HM on a HM run simply because they hadn't done the HM before?

Are they REALLY that much more difficult now at 60 or is it just assumed they are? Perhaps it's jsut laziness on pug raid leaders behalf? IMO if you want to lead a bug then at the beginning of each fight you should TYPE up a quick run down of the differences between SM and HM, if they don't know the SM mechanics like the back of their hand I agree they shouldn't be there.

From there you simply ask if anyone doesn't specifically know what THEIR role on the fight is so you can quickly tell them if so. I know that often you get people who say nothing regardless because they don't even know the SM mechanics and just wanted something to do but that's part and parcel with pug raid leading and often gear checks are a good means to see what content someone has completed ( like no set pieces at all ... pass or all comm gear etc. ).

One you do the the above running HM pugs isn't quite as frustrating for everyone involved, it just relies a good raid leader. I remember learnings op mechanics back at 2.0 launch and I had a few failed attempts and it was one good pug group I ended up in that quickly and clearly explained the fight ( without going overboard on detail ) to the point that I knew the mechanics down pat for the next time I run them because that leader had done a good job of leading.
That was for SM also which in essence is HARDER to lead first timers into because you have to explain the whole fight. Leading first timer HM players who can cake walk SM is often a much easier job as you only really need to explain the differences.

People need to lose some of the arrogance I think and realise that many people wanting to raid aren't idiots and will get it right if explained correctly. It's the raid leader who is the idiot if he/she fails to do this.

making group finder 8 man again would solve a lot of problems I see people having in this thread.

I don't know why people get upset that the lvl 55 ops gave ults. As it stands now lvl 55-59s can earn ults doing operations and its not end game content.

why not both? You queue for 16m or 8m.

At any rate, what I would like to see is :

-Small ammount of GF reward ultis rather than elites for the daily fp (around 5 for a max of 35 a week that way)

-Small ammount (10 or so) for clearing SnV, TFB, DP, DF in any difficulty mode. 8m drops elites, 16m elites x 1,5 of 8m or so to make 16m still worth it (kinda balance the higher number of dps compared to tank and healer, so encouraging it is rather healthy for server pop)

-Small extra ammount for doing any one of those HM (another 10 lets say (mean leaving weekly as it is)

-NiM SnV and TFB drops ultis like DP/DF NiM, or perhaps one or two less per boss, but ultis.

-Small ammount of ELITE commendation for clearing level 50 ops with a boosted drop rate of a few nice things(decos, speeders etc), since no one care about the gear they drop anymore (goal here is just to keep that content alive, so people getting the courrier mission can clear them without waiting for 3 hours to make an ops team, and people around the fleet with nothing better to do figure, why not, could get something not too bad)

Goal is a casual player that every week does a fp every day, every single ops he can do (55 sm and 60 sm) should be darn close to weekly cap.

I wouldn't be saying this if ultimates gave access to extremely good gear, but they don't. They're giving access to some gear people that go casually about the game find interesting, and it keeps servers lively. A big improvement from now.

In 2,0, true we had only 2 55 ops, but HM EV and KP were far simpler than HM SnV or TFB for the HM comms, we had TC (altough I didnt check out new yavin boss) and we had comms on GF FP.

so my toon has 192 gear working on getting set armor...i run Rav and TOS and now i'm done for the week...my point is that use to be able run all week for the weeklies now there no reason...the devs lost the purpose of the game to do and flashpoints...now there no que and no one does df or dp or and thing thats not easy as a sm...so why do i pay 15 dollars a month to play on my couple toons???i think the devs need more content and they need to put balance in the game...till then i'll drop my monthly and check some new mmo's coming out..at lease i'll new story and new challange and be able to play all week in stead of putting credit spams on ignore and wait for a ops to come around...

Here is another idea... maybe let us buy a Matter Transubstantiator for 1000 basic comms?