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Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.12.2015 , 01:42 PM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by xX-Archangel-Xx View Post
ignore him, he plays conc operative and he sayd a lot of times he died every time against sorcs, the best 1v1 class lose vs a sorc is almost ridicoulous
Concealment is very good 1v1, but if still give the blue ribbon to sins for 1v1 class champ.

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.12.2015 , 01:43 PM | #242
Quote: Originally Posted by halcyon_havoc View Post
Sorcs are very strong. They've always been strong. I've played one since launch.

The other classes could use some love for once.
Meh there was a point where sorcs needed help I think. I just think that time is long past.

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.12.2015 , 01:48 PM | #243
The problem with sorcs (especially lightning) is how mobile they are. If they only had self heals, barrier, and kiting then I'd say they are fine. The problem is lightning is almost all insta cast or cast on the move. They don't have the weakness of range (which is supposed to be casts). Granted all the ranged classes got a bit more mobility, but lightning is has too many tools in its tool belt. Take one away and they'd be fine. Powetechs are the same thing just opposite. They were a melee class so they were given decent defenses and hard hitting insta casts. Well now they are almost full blown ranged class as AP. That doesn't make sense. Hatred sins also have too much range. They are giving range too much mobility and melee too much range. Kiting should always be ranged toons main survivability. Yes they need some other things, but giving them a full rotation of insta cast/cast on the move abilities was just stupid.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
01.12.2015 , 02:28 PM | #244
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
The problem with sorcs (especially lightning) is how mobile they are. If they only had self heals, barrier, and kiting then I'd say they are fine. The problem is lightning is almost all insta cast or cast on the move.
The problem wol the old Sage was, that he was too immobile, too much glass turret, and could get down far too fast - if the players hadn't acquired the Art Of Kiting (TM). And that would most likely be "the casual player" most hardcore PvP players hate so much.

But - one thing that was never really resolved was this : How much is the actual ratio ncasual players vs. hardcore players ?
Let's just assume that it was 80 / 20, or maybe 70 / 30, then the "casuals" aka "bads" would still be the majority.
And - that's how I see it, personally - Bioware decided to help those who were not Masters Of THe Kiting (TM).
Thus they created the Mobile Glass Cannon (TM) instead of the mmobile Glass Cannon (TM).
And what you have now is the result.

This is my subjective view, how I see the Sage class right now.

I must admit, though, that I didn't do PvP with my Sage since 3.0 because I thought from your complaints that this class is too much broken and I didn't want to exploit that fact - apart from my Sage getting to level 54 only a few days ago.
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.

swredrage's Avatar


swredrage
01.12.2015 , 03:38 PM | #245
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
The problem with sorcs (especially lightning) is how mobile they are. If they only had self heals, barrier, and kiting then I'd say they are fine. The problem is lightning is almost all insta cast or cast on the move. They don't have the weakness of range (which is supposed to be casts). Granted all the ranged classes got a bit more mobility, but lightning is has too many tools in its tool belt. Take one away and they'd be fine. Powetechs are the same thing just opposite. They were a melee class so they were given decent defenses and hard hitting insta casts. Well now they are almost full blown ranged class as AP. That doesn't make sense. Hatred sins also have too much range. They are giving range too much mobility and melee too much range. Kiting should always be ranged toons main survivability. Yes they need some other things, but giving them a full rotation of insta cast/cast on the move abilities was just stupid.
mobility is based on procs and skill point and fairly easily countered. TB is mobile when skill point applied (which is a must in pvp) Shock and .. some ability i don't remember the name of. TB procs a CL. Force speed procs 2 Lightning bolts. insta. then affliction which lightnings primary use for is for TB crits every 9 seconds or so. if every ability crits and procs then someone will most likely die. otherwise.. you get healed and kill the sorc in the next 5-10 seconds if his barrier is on its THREE MINUTE cool down.
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Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.12.2015 , 03:47 PM | #246
Lightning hardly ever has to cast anything except thundering blast which can be done on the move and crushing darkness which has a proc for faster cast. I'm not saying everything lightning does should be casted I'm saying they should have to cast over 50% of the time because they are ranged. With as much insta cast as they have the benefit melee used to have is gone. It just doesn't make sense to have a ranged toon have 90% insta cast/cast on the move. Nor does it make sense for a melee class to have 90% of its attacks available from 15-30m. It's just not how it was supposed to be. It throws traditional survivability and counters between melee and ranged out the window. If a sorc didn't know how to kite then it deserved to die IMO. If you play ranged then you should learn to kite and LOS. Why should you try to face tank? Barrier alone was good as an anti focus button. If the sorc team was bad and didn't peel off the attackers then that is the teams fault. Now with bastion your team doesn't have to peel them off. You can just go back to business. They need to have one less tool. Either take kiting (that would be stupid), face tank (keep barrier get rid of bastion), some insta cast and mobility (best option), or healing (also not a good idea as heals are built into their class).

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.12.2015 , 03:51 PM | #247
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
I must admit, though, that I didn't do PvP with my Sage since 3.0 because I thought from your complaints that this class is too much broken and I didn't want to exploit that fact - apart from my Sage getting to level 54 only a few days ago.
Choosing to play a class you enjoy is never an exploit no matter how op some feel the class is. Don't let my complaints (or anyone's complaints) keep you from playing a class you enjoy. Heck I complain about sins and sorcs and I play both all the time (my sin was my first toon and I play it the most after my operative). If you liked sage pre 3.0 you will have a blast now. I would say sages are completely broken they just have been given too many tools. That's all. Their damage is fine. Their healing is fine. Their kiting and cc is fine. That's the way they are supposed to be. The only complaints I have is bastion and insta casts. Those two kind of defy ranged toon logic. I'd be fine if they toned down one or the other. Even so I'd suggest you play your sorc if you enjoyed. Especially give lightning a go. You hardly ever have to stop moving. It's pretty fun.

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nrevox
01.12.2015 , 04:22 PM | #248
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
Lightning hardly ever has to cast anything except thundering blast which can be done on the move and crushing darkness which has a proc for faster cast. I'm not saying everything lightning does should be casted I'm saying they should have to cast over 50% of the time because they are ranged. With as much insta cast as they have the benefit melee used to have is gone. It just doesn't make sense to have a ranged toon have 90% insta cast/cast on the move. Nor does it make sense for a melee class to have 90% of its attacks available from 15-30m. It's just not how it was supposed to be. It throws traditional survivability and counters between melee and ranged out the window. If a sorc didn't know how to kite then it deserved to die IMO. If you play ranged then you should learn to kite and LOS. Why should you try to face tank? Barrier alone was good as an anti focus button. If the sorc team was bad and didn't peel off the attackers then that is the teams fault. Now with bastion your team doesn't have to peel them off. You can just go back to business. They need to have one less tool. Either take kiting (that would be stupid), face tank (keep barrier get rid of bastion), some insta cast and mobility (best option), or healing (also not a good idea as heals are built into their class).

I have to disagree. Lightning sorc is not 90% insta cast. Have you played one? I don't know about anyone else but my bar is not lighting up all by itself with procs. I have to cast stuff to get those. Not everyone specs into the thundering blast while moving. Either way its still a cast and can be interrupted or disrupted. Lightning bolt (lightning strike) is a huge part of the rotation and is not an insta cast unless it procs. Lightning flash, shock, and force lightning all have cooldowns. FL cant be cast while moving. I don't understand the 90% thing.
Sorcs are dangerous when they can set there feet and free cast. If you force them to stay on the move then they are out of their advantage. Sure, they may proc a couple of times from force speed, but they aren't bursting down anyone while moving. They have to set their feet to get the bulk of those procs and full burst. And THAT is how you beat them. Force them to stay moving and not set their feet. Most of the time they will run to find a safer spot. If they stay and fight in melee range they should be dead.

MarcoMontana's Avatar


MarcoMontana
01.12.2015 , 04:22 PM | #249
Quote: Originally Posted by xX-Archangel-Xx View Post
ignore him, he plays conc operative and he sayd a lot of times he died every time against sorcs, the best 1v1 class lose vs a sorc is almost ridicoulous
I did not say I die every time, nor can you provide me saying it...

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.12.2015 , 04:27 PM | #250
Quote: Originally Posted by nrevox View Post
I have to disagree. Lightning sorc is not 90% insta cast. Have you played one? I don't know about anyone else but my bar is not lighting up all by itself with procs. I have to cast stuff to get those. Not everyone specs into the thundering blast while moving. Either way its still a cast and can be interrupted or disrupted. Lightning bolt (lightning strike) is a huge part of the rotation and is not an insta cast unless it procs. Lightning flash, shock, and force lightning all have cooldowns. FL cant be cast while moving. I don't understand the 90% thing.
Sorcs are dangerous when they can set there feet and free cast. If you force them to stay on the move then they are out of their advantage. Sure, they may proc a couple of times from force speed, but they aren't bursting down anyone while moving. They have to set their feet to get the bulk of those procs and full burst. And THAT is how you beat them. Force them to stay moving and not set their feet. Most of the time they will run to find a safer spot. If they stay and fight in melee range they should be dead.
Yes I do play lightning and yes it is almost all insta cast. You proc chain lightning with lightning bolt, thundering blast, and force storm. Lightning bolt insta cast can be proc'd by taking damage and by using force speed. Shock has always been insta cast. Lightning flash is insta cast. I really don't use force lightning anymore in lightning spec as their are more mobile options. Thundering blast can be cast on the move with a utility. Crushing darkness is the only ability that I always have to cast. I didn't say they are 100% insta cast. I said they are 90% insta cast/cast on the move. You still have to cast sometimes, but rarely. They are by far the most mobile ranged class and have the most insta cast/moving cast abilities. I have busted plenty of people down while moving.