lets talk Socerer's! Seriously, no hat just realy come on now?

If you read my whole post you would have noticed that I also think, that mercs could need some love in form of survivability. The only thing I added to that is that the buff needs to be in relation to their burst potential; meaning the higher the reliable burst the lower the survivability has to be - generally known as glass canon concept.

But you are right on the AOE part. after reading your post and re-reading my post I noticed that I forgot to answer to that point. So here it is:
I basically agree with you that there is too much AoE. But the AOE damage cuts both ways, because in both sorc dps disciplines the respective AoE ability is a vital part of the spec - even on single targets. This leads to the problem that effective soft-stunning / cc'ing with a sorc on your team is very difficult, as you can control those AoE abilities to a certain degree. The only alternative is to not use those abilities, which leads to a huge plunge in dps.
As a matter of fact, as a madness sorc you can only achieve decent dps if you use as much AoE damage (via DF and dot spread) as possible. Which again prevents effective cc. And I wasn't talking about Force Storm here - just to make things clear.

That being said, the current state of Force Storm is a joke. How can the AoE attack FS hit critically for 4k when Force Lightning as a single target ability only hits for 2-2,5k. I don't think it is as bad as smash was, as smash delivered 10-12k hits instataneously, but it definitely is too strong. The main issue here is that the damage is too high, for not having a CD. But if it should have a cd, the damage should be as high as it is for Death from Above.

As for your complaint about sorcs using DoTs and Barrier in combination. First, that would only work once every 2.5 to 3 mins. Second, it takes 3 GCDs and a 2 sec channel to put all the DoTs on you (incl. Deathfield). Look at how much damage you can do with your burst in the same time. It far outweighs the damage those DoTs will do over the next 12 sec. A major part of the Madness Sorcs' damage comes from Force Lightning, which they won't be using while inside their barrier. Plus you got your Electro Net, which btw got a lower CD than either Stun Breaker or Force Barrier.

There is also nothing wrong with my Knockback statement. Against well playing melees my knockback only hits in like 3 to 5 out of 10 cases, because of server lag and it not being 360°. In addition the distance it knocks the enemy back is smaller than that of mercs and snipers. And as if that is not enough, sniper's knockback got an inherent root while merc knockback got an inherent slow - which btw is AoE and for which's single target version sorcs have to use 1 gcd and 1 cd.

And finally, just btw, bubble does not stun by default. And I don't know why you as a ranged class are complaining about.

Your first statement here only shows your narrow view. Big burst means you need lower survivabilty if you want to achieve balance. A sniper can do 30k damage within 1.5 sec to 3sec, sorcs can't. So sorc's need tools to offset that and stay alive, because it is not like the sniper cannot deal any damage anymore after those 30k. Same goes for the mercs. They can defeat a sorc in 1v1. The only problem they have is if people gang up on them. And the problem here is, as also mentioned in the previous posts, that while they could use some higher survivabilty it cannot be as high as that of a sorc, due to the higher burst / single target dps they have.

The reason for why I suggested to compare snipers also with classes other than mercs and sorcs is that if you want to achieve class balance you have to balance each class against every other class in the game - that includes melees. In addition melees are currently stronger than range dps. As I mentioned before any melee (except for mara) can fairly easily kill a sorc - in your eyes the most powerful range class at the moment. And in a 1on1 situation even Mercs and Snipers have good chance of killing a sorc. To me a class that is OP is not easily killed by that many other classes (e.g. like maras back in the days). But I know why you are not comparing your class with those class; because for your it is far easier to handle those melees as it is for sorcs and mercs. You can sit there in your cover, thus not getting charged at, immune to any kind of stunm, cc, or interupt and with a fool-proof escape button. When sorcs use force speed they simply get push or stunned. You on the other hand just rofl away and are immediately afterwards sitting in your cover again.

Talking about toolsets, you want heal? You want a force barrier as a sniper? Get rid of your cover and all associated immunities and damage reduction, and make your escape ability susceptible to cc! Snipers got nothing to complain about.
Btw, if you give up your cover you will get that mobility you want for free. You can already test it, just don't use cover at all - enjoy.

Not by default. That's right.
But you can put a point into it.

As a sorc I have issues with PTs and Assassins so if we are getting nerfed I want them to get nerfed as well. And if these classes have problems with other classes they should get nerfed as well. And voila, we are at patch 2.9 again.

For a long time i didn't even want to play with my sorc on WZ because i got tired of being a free stats boost to every jugg, assassin and operative around. Now sorcs are finally contenders again and all of you are crying bitter tears because you completely forgot already how to even play vs sorcs.
Grow up boys and girls, it's not the game that is broken it's your skills. The ACTUALLY good players are not crying, they just figure out skillful ways to deal with it.

As sorc i rarely can compete against a sin or a vanguard, now with 3.0 i finally have a chance against shien guardians, and u guys are telling me we need a nerf ? Ok, but when is guard/sins turn ?
I remeber you, sorcs wre useless b4 2.9

This entire discussion is absolutely ridiculous. Sorcs have finally become a viable class in ranked with these buffs, previously they were completely useless focus fodder.

As it is, they are far from the most OP ranged class, let alone overall class. You've got snipers that wipe sorcs out in 2 global cooldowns due to their burst. Same goes for PT's, except they have still decent burst at 30 metres and are almost indestructible. PT's regularly hit 10k+ crits, something no sorc ability can do. Sorcs, even with the revised lightning spec, still have terrible burst damage.

As for kiting, sorcs still get roflstunned and smashed to death by melee classes, even on madness where I use my creeping terror root all the time to maintain distance. Still not nearly enough burst to beat a decent jugg 1v1.

As for bubble, people still sit just outside then cc you and smash you to death as soon as you emerge. Receiving heals while in bubble is the only way to survive if the opponent just waits you out.

Almost all wz dps is still topped by jugg/PT/snipers assuming both sides are decent. If your team is **** and they let sorcs sit on the sidelines and cast dots/ force storm for a whole match of course they will top the numbers.

Sorc is still the worst class in the game for 1v1 combat - any melee class will wipe them out assuming both players are of equal skill and gear.

Snipers completely obliterate sorcs unless the sorc manages to DOT/LOS them, which for me playing with an Australian ping is almost impossible.

Sorcs heals are finally usable in something other than PVE and they still are far inferior to operative heals in terms of survivability (with cloak escape and almost all moving heals)

For the first time in SWTOR history all 3 sorcs specs are viable and the QQ is massive.
The same people who QQ'd about ops when they were FOTM pre 1.5, about snipers when they were FOTM pre 2.0 and about merc heals when they were FOTM pre 2.8-ish.

The only time sorcs kick butt is when they have a team supporting them that is better than the other team. Otherwise they get melted faster than any other class in the game.

I say to all you whiners; get bent.

Edit: I still melt sorcs on my op, gunslinger and jugg. They are still super squishy and easy to cc to death. Especially on my gunslinger; my survivability with her is far higher than the sorc. And when sorcs LOs me I just roflroll right in their face, cover and blast them some more.

Only the really good sorc players are melting faces right now, and those same guys were already melting faces before

The sorc and powertechs are so overpowered... PvP in general is a joke in this game... Time to leave this money-hungry, sh*** company once and for all

Try to focus a sorc, tell me if in the end of wz if he did more than 500k

So your fix is for our entire team to focus the Sorcerer because they're so powerful, and prevent them from doing massive DPS, CC, by ignoring the rest of their team?


The fact you even typed that, speaks volumes about the Sorcerers over toning! Sorceres aren't powerful just have your whole team focus them and they will die........... Sigh!