Hey fellow dual wielders,

 

I've been getting inquiries on these forums, via PMs and E-Mail concerning the rotation I use for parses in the 4.6K - 4.7K region (EDIT: Best Parse: 4871). So I thought I'll answer them publicly here.

 

Note: This is NOT meant to be a guide for several reasons:

 

 

• This post is by no means as comprehensive as a real guide would have to be, it's just to provide everyone with the rotation that gets me 4.550 consistently and 4.700 if all goes well with this gear: full 186 plus: 198 offhand, 1x 198 implant, 1x 198 relic, 1x 192 implant, 1x 192 relic, 3 x 192 mods, 1x 198 mod. 145 Crit rating, 99,90 accuracy, rest surge (no alacrity, though you likely should get one slot once you're full 192 imo))
   
   
  
• I do hope and want the spec to be changed by Devs, so there'd be no point even trying to write a comprehensive guide. If you want to support changes, you can find a suggestion here.
  <- Your contribution there is highly appreciated! :-)

 

Explaining: While Dummy DPS is obviously fine, me and many other Sents / Maras find the spec is not fun to play. What’s more, its Dummy DPS does not translate to raids the way it used to - and specifically does not on the new Ops content.

 

 

 

Anyway, for the time being, here's what I do:

 

OPENER:

 

Meditation until 30 Stacks Zen (-> Utility "Contemplation")

 

Force Leap + Overload Saber

Zealous Strike

 

Merciless Slash

Force Melt + Zen (+ Valorous Call + Inspiration + Adrenal)

Cauterize

Master Strike

Double Saber Throw (on proc)

Force Leap + Overload Saber

Strike

 

Merciless Slash

Zealous Strike

Cauterize

Slash (Strike if below 9 focus)

Strike

Force Melt + Overload Saber

 

 

36 s-ROTATION (keeping Overload Saber on Cooldown):

 

Merciless Slash

FILLER

Master Strike

 

Merciless Slash

Cauterize

FILLER

FILLER

(<- one of these Fillers will usually be a procced Double Saber Throw, the other one a strong focus builder)

 

Merciless Slash

FILLER

FILLER

Force Melt

(<- You will mostly build focus with these Fillers, as the next block is the most “expensive” one)

 

Merciless Slash

Cauterize

Master Strike

 

Merciless Slash

FILLER

FILLER

FILLER

(<- one of these Fillers will usually be a procced Double Saber Throw, another one a strong focus builder. You MIGHT get in Slash / Dispatch in one of those fillers depending on focus and placement of Overload Saber)

Merciless Slash

Cauterize

FILLER

Force Melt

 

<- repeat

 

As for FILLERS, see the explanation in italics. Generally your filler priorities are:

 

 

• 
   
  
• Building focus for what's to come: -> Zealous Strike, Force Leap, Strike (Force Stasis is not too good an option, because if we need focus, we usually need it fast).
   
   
  
• Procced Double Saber Throw.
   
   
  
• If that's been taken care of you might want to try and throw in Slash, but be extra careful not to drain your resources doing that.
  

 

Sub 30% you will get in Dispatch with the same low frequency as Slash above 30%. Once target will not live long enough for Force Melt to tick for at least 15secs, drop it and do more Dispatches. Careful: You need to build focus for that, while Force Melt was free -> rotation will change quite a bit!

 

 

 

Here’s the same in Marauder lingo (insert some "You evil lot, you"-joke here):

 

 

OPENER:

 

Brooding until 30 Stacks Fury (-> Utility "Brooding")

 

Force Charge + Deadly Saber

Battering Assault + Berserk (+ Frenzy + Bloodthirst + Adrenal)

 

Annihilate

Force Rend

Rupture

Ravage

Twin Saber Throw (on proc)

Force Charge + Deadly Saber

Assault

 

Annihilate

Battering Assault

Rupture

Vicious Slash (Assault if below 9 focus)

Assault

Force Rend + Deadly Saber

 

 

36 s-ROTATION (keeping Deadly Saber on Cooldown):

 

Annihilate

FILLER

Ravage

 

Annihilate

Rupture

FILLER

FILLER

(<- one of these Fillers will usually be a procced Twin Saber Throw, the other one a strong rage builder)

 

Annihilate

FILLER

FILLER

Force Rend

(<- You will mostly build rage with these Fillers, as the next block is the most “expensive” one)

 

Annihilate

Rupture

Ravage

 

Annihilate

FILLER

FILLER

FILLER

(<- one of these Fillers will usually be a procced Twin Saber Throw, another one a strong rage builder. You MIGHT get in Vicious Slash / Throw in one of those fillers depending on rage and placement of Deadly Saber)

Annihilate

Rupture

FILLER

Force Rend

 

<- repeat

 

 

As for FILLERS, see the explanation in italics. Generally your filler priorities are:

 

 

• 
   
  
• Building focus for what's to come: -> Battering Assault, Force Charge, Assault (Force Choke is not too good an option, because if we need rage, we need it fast).
   
   
  
• Procced Double Saber Throw.
   
   
  
• If that's been taken care of you might want to try and throw in Vicious Slash, but be extra careful not to drain your resources doing that.
  

 

Sub 30% you will get in Vicious Throw with the same low frequency as Vicious Slash above 30%. Once target will not live long enough for Force Rend to tick for at least 15secs, drop it and do more Vicious Throws. Careful: You need to build focus for that, while Force Rend was free -> rotation will change quite a bit!

 

 

EDIT: A word about Set Bonuses:

 

- The new 6pc set bonus (plus one 198 non set armoring) has the highest damage potential, even if you've been 186 BIS before.

 

- The old 4pc plus new 2pc hast the most reliable average damage. You might want to chose it for raiding, if you're 186 BIS.

 

- Stay away from new 4pc plus old 2pc, that's definitely the worst setup. Except you're mostly 180...

 

This is for 192. The more 198 armorings you get, the better the new 6pc becomes, so for full 198 definitely go new 6pc.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

Bam! Very nice Ard! Going to give this a go when I get off work... but this is incredibly helpful already, everything makes total sense. I already see just based on the explanation several things I am doing wrong... so I am eager to put it to use!

 

I nominate Ardarell as Sentinel Class President!

Very cool, I'll definitely have to give that a go, if only to make my sage friend cry sweet tears of defeat.

 

Oh and also, not like it matters that much but I noticed the last paragraph is still in Sentinel lingo (which I fully approve of, Marauders are silly):

 

Sub 30% you will get in Dispatch with the same low frequency as Slash above 30%. Once target will not live long enough for Force Melt to tick for at least 15secs, drop it and do more Dispatches. Careful: You need to build focus for that, while Force Melt was free -> rotation will change quite a bit!

I'm wanting to call bs on this.

 

I realize most people wouldn't just come on here and start stating they can parse 4.5k+ on a dummy for no reason, but I've tried out this proposed rotation and I get better results with: (i'm not nearly as geared and I sustain 3.7k - 180 set bonus 4piece - 186's, 0 crit rating, 640 surge rating, 100.43% accuracy, russan relics, hawkeye implants, expert closed circuit mk2 earpiece)

 

OPENER: (Broke 4k w/ this)

ADRENAL >> ZEN >> FL >> OS >> ZS >> CAUTERIZE >> MERCILESS SLASH >> FM >> VALOUROUS CALL >> ZEN >> MASTER STRIKE >> TST >> SLASH

 

THEN TO

 

REGULAR ROTATION:

FL >> OS >> MERCILESS SLASH >> FM >> SLASH >> CAUTERIZE >> ZS >> MASTER STRIKE >> SLASH >> TST >> ZEN when up

 

I just don't see how I could becoming remotely close to your sustained in much much lower gear.... am I missing something here? I realize that hitting with merciless slash causes more damage from burns, so the cauterize and force melt after merciless slash sort of made sense to me when I read what you put, but following your rotations got me much lower dps....

 

For a 500K parse at 43.1 apm over 2:13 seconds my damage is spread like this:

Merciless Slash - 107,930 (21.5%)

Overload Saber: Burning via Overload Saber - 97,472 (19.5%)

Force Melt - 77,456 (15.5%)

Cauterize: Burning via debuff - 49,165 (9.8%)

Master Strike - 47,623 (9.5%)

Twin Saber Throw - 31,704 (6.3%)

Slash - 24,725 (4.9%)

Zealous Strike - 17,805 (3.6%)

Force Leap - 15,347 (3.1%)

Cauterize: Initial damage - 14,015 (2.8%)

Strike - 9,482 (1.9%)

Dispatch - 8,311 (1.7%)

Edited December 16, 2014 by kyledevious

Oh and also, not like it matters that much but I noticed the last paragraph is still in Sentinel lingo (which I fully approve of, Marauders are silly):

 

Oops, corrected :-)

I'm wanting to call bs on this.

 

I realize most people wouldn't just come on here and start stating they can parse 4.5k+ on a dummy for no reason, but I've tried out this proposed rotation and I get better results with: (i'm not nearly as geared and I sustain 3.7k - 180 set bonus 4piece - 186's, 0 crit rating, 640 surge rating, 100.43% accuracy, russan relics, hawkeye implants, expert closed circuit mk2 earpiece)

 

OPENER: (Broke 4k w/ this)

ADRENAL >> ZEN >> FL >> OS >> ZS >> CAUTERIZE >> MERCILESS SLASH >> FM >> VALOUROUS CALL >> ZEN >> MASTER STRIKE >> TST >> SLASH

 

THEN TO

 

REGULAR ROTATION:

FL >> OS >> MERCILESS SLASH >> FM >> SLASH >> CAUTERIZE >> ZS >> MASTER STRIKE >> SLASH >> TST >> ZEN when up

 

I just don't see how I could becoming remotely close to your sustained in much much lower gear.... am I missing something here? I realize that hitting with merciless slash causes more damage from burns, so the cauterize and force melt after merciless slash sort of made sense to me when I read what you put, but following your rotations got me much lower dps....

 

For a 500K parse at 43.1 apm over 2:13 seconds my damage is spread like this:

Merciless Slash - 107,930 (21.5%)

Overload Saber: Burning via Overload Saber - 97,472 (19.5%)

Force Melt - 77,456 (15.5%)

Cauterize: Burning via debuff - 49,165 (9.8%)

Master Strike - 47,623 (9.5%)

Twin Saber Throw - 31,704 (6.3%)

Slash - 24,725 (4.9%)

Zealous Strike - 17,805 (3.6%)

Force Leap - 15,347 (3.1%)

Cauterize: Initial damage - 14,015 (2.8%)

Strike - 9,482 (1.9%)

Dispatch - 8,311 (1.7%)

 

If you're getting higher results with that, you're not executing the rotation I listed properly. Your gear should be good for much more than 3.7 K.

 

Just pointing out a few things that don't make sense the rotation you listed:

 

- Delaying Overload Saber (massive DPS loss)

- Delaying Cauterize (substantial DPS loss)

- Merciless not on Cooldown (always losing DPS)

- Clipping Force Melt in the opener

- Slashes where you could use Merciless

- No Inspiration

 

BTW: 0 Crit is probably not a good idea, go for at least 100-ish

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo

OPENER:

 

Meditation until 30 Stacks Zen (-> Utility "Contemplation")

 

Force Leap + Overload Saber

Zealous Strike + Zen (+ Valorous Call + Inspiration + Adrenal)

 

Merciless Slash

Force Melt

Cauterize

Master Strike

Double Saber Throw (on proc)

 

I'm curious why you're popping Zen so early? I remember a previous guide saying to pop Zen at 3 stacks of OS, as well as Cauterize up (and now Force Melt) - or pop it while applying the 3rd stack.

 

Against a dummy I was opening with: FL > OS + ZS > CA > M. Slash > FM + Zen > MS > TST and getting slightly higher average dps than with your opener and highest overall with 3.2k vs 2.9

 

Ideally I'd run FL > OS + ZS > CA > FM > M. Slash + Zen > MS > TST - but that's dependant if you get lucky with Focus building, otherwise you'd end up with a Strike in between Melt and Merciless Slash...

I'm curious why you're popping Zen so early? I remember a previous guide saying to pop Zen at 3 stacks of OS, as well as Cauterize up (and now Force Melt) - or pop it while applying the 3rd stack.

 

That's best, if you're only looking at the Crits from Overload Saber. But I've been using Zen on Cooldown and pop it immediately with 30 Stacks forever and I always get higher parses doing that. Probably because you have optimal 4pc set bonus uptime (damage increased under Zen): Like that you don't "waste" any potential Centering stacks. Cause if you're sitting at 30 stacks and don't pop Zen right away, you will probably use skills that would build Centering, but it won't count, if you have 30 stacks already. If you always pop Zen immdediately, no potential Centering is wasted.

 

Against a dummy I was opening with: FL > OS + ZS > CA > M. Slash > FM + Zen > MS > TST and getting slightly higher average dps than with your opener and highest overall with 3.2k vs 2.9

 

What I wrote is actually not the highest possible opener, if you only look at the beginning of the fight. But it is designed to flow smoothly into the max dps 36 secs rotation the best way possible. You'll notice the only core ability that gets delayed once for one GCD is Cauterize. Everything else is kept exactly on Cooldown throughout the complete parse. That why it's max dps at the end of the parse, but not necessarily in the first 20 seconds.

But, hey, we're a Dot spec (actually a lot more so after 3.0)

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo

Will have to give that opener a try as I've been delaying Rend/Melt by 1 or 2 GCDs which might explain why I'm always facing issues where Annihilate doesn't sync with Rend...that and the habit of auto-attacking too much to feed my "you're gonna run out of rage" paranoia. Will give this another try on my farsuperiorandsexy Marauder when servers come back up or I wake up, whichever happens first.

Do you have the ability to record this rotation and post it? I spent hours last night working on trying to optimize this with little success . I was continuously getting parses like kyledevious averaging 3.7 to 3.8k. What's your uptime on deadly saber?

Dispatch is a 10 second CD now. How does that change the rotation? Edited December 16, 2014 by Bugattiboy

It probably means we'll have to use Slash now... which is of course what we are forced to do, and hence an additional nerf that Bioware didn't even have to write a line of code for. I'm so very unhappy with this whole situation

I fit mine in during a large filler block where I know I can quickly get rage back, preferably before I have to drain it on Deadly Saber, afterwards I hold off a few blocks until I see the ideal placement of it. Really depends on how your timing till be with Deadly Saber. I honestly only use Vicious Throw/Dispatch when I require movement as a lot of that happens and cycle it with my DST/Rend.

 

Basically use it if you can afford it with your next block in mind, or save it for when you're inevitably chasing something down. Until I feel otherwise, VT/Dispatch is a filler that brings a sad and depressing smile when it does decent damage.

Can sign this Guide, but DPS are dependend on your gear;-)

Just out of curiosity, how are you augmented?

I've never been able to get Dispatch in more often than every 10secs anyway, so at least for sustained damage in OPs it doesn't change anything.

 

I use might augments.

I actually am always hesitating between your way and another one that i find easier to use during ops : put the Cauterize CD on the OS CD, meaning that your opening is a little bit different :

 

FL + OS

ZS

Cauterize

Merciless

FM

Master strike

Double saber

 

FL+ OS

Cauterize

Strike

Merciless

ZS

Slash *1 or 2(depending on focus level)

strike 1 or 2 (depending on the number of slash done)

FM

Merciless

 

Difference : i refresh the cauterise one gcd to early on the second one, and i have to do one more slash or strike at the end of the opener. But i m not loosing one GCD on cauterize.

 

And i keep this OS caute on CD and merciless as well of course to have the perfect timing for FM

 

Easier to handle cauterize during fight because you know it always comes right after OS, don't have to count your Merciless.

Edited December 17, 2014 by mayoonaise

I actually am always hesitating between your way and another one that i find easier to use during ops : put the Cauterize CD on the OS CD, meaning that your opening is a little bit different :

 

FL + OS

ZS

Cauterize

Merciless

FM

Master strike

Double saber

 

FL+ OS

Cauterize

Strike

Merciless

ZS

Slash *1 or 2(depending on focus level)

strike 1 or 2 (depending on the number of slash done)

FM

Merciless

 

Difference : i refresh the cauterise one gcd to early on the second one, and i have to do one more slash or strike at the end of the opener. But i m not loosing one GCD on cauterize.

 

And i keep this OS caute on CD and merciless as well of course to have the perfect timing for FM

 

Easier to handle cauterize during fight because you know it always comes right after OS, don't have to count your Merciless.

 

Interesting, I see, why you would do that. Actually the rotation I listed is rather dummy specific anyway. Every time we switch targets or have downtime phases, the rotation will go crazy anyway and I improvise according to priorities. Most of the times it's not even worth it to try and get into the correct "rhythm and flow" of the ideal rotation, because as soon as you've gotten there, the next phase of the fight will set in.

 

That being said, priorities in general would be (strictly according to the DPS they do per Activation/GCD):

 

Force Melt

Overload Saber

Cauterize

Merciless Slash

Double Saber Throw (with proc)

Master Strike

Dispatch

Slash

 

So if I still have my Merciless stacks at the beginning of a new phase, I will often Dot up the target, before doing Merciless, even though on the Dummy I do Merciless first. Especially, since you can apply Force Melt from 10m which can be very useful (Can do the same with Overload Saber if you pair it with Double Saber Throw)! Also I try to reapply Dots early if I know I won't be able to attack the boss anymore soon, but Dots will go on ticking (e.g. before Mass Barrage on Bulo).

 

If you've lost your stacks, you could play the Dummy opener of course. But as I said, the one I listed is just for getting into the rotation the best way possible, which again is not so important on boss fights with phase transitions usually coming at you shortly after you've engaged the first enemy.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo

Do you have the ability to record this rotation and post it? I spent hours last night working on trying to optimize this with little success . I was continuously getting parses like kyledevious averaging 3.7 to 3.8k. What's your uptime on deadly saber?

 

Sry, your question somehow slipped past me. Unfortunately I can't record atm. Deadly saber must be used on Cooldown, as well as all our other core abilities. You could also check your APM (should be 45,5 at least, max about 46,5).

Thank so much for this. I am looking forward to trying this and will let you know how it goes!

Thank so much for this. I am looking forward to trying this and will let you know how it goes!

 

You're very welcome :-) Good luck testing it!

 

A couple of Sents / Maras sent me their parses to look at and I'd give this additional piece of advice from that: Do watch out not to (Vicious) Slash & Dispatch / Vicious Throw too much. If you do more than one every 36 secs, the rotation won't work anymore (Check the 3-Filler spot I mentioned for that).

 

One of the problems is that this rotation is counter intuitive to what we've all been experiencing and playing pre 3.0: When we were sitting at 10 focus / rage in the last gcd before Annihilate / Merciless we would of course (VIcious) Slash. In this rotation it's mostly the better and required option to Assault / Strike and rage / focus cap - especially if the next block includes Rupture / Cauterize and Ravage / Master Strike + maybe Overload / Deadly Saber...

 

That's one of the reasons why the best way to pull off this rotation is to simply learn it by heart. I found that if I don't, I fall into typical pre 3.0 Watchman patterns of reaction and that kills this rotation. Which just about shows how much this spec has changed (and do I need to repeat: not for the better imo...).

Edited December 24, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo

I'm getting kind of confused here with the opener. You wrote down that it's Force rend + deadly saber at the end. So you don't use force charge + saber combo anymore. Cause when you go into the annihilation 36 cycles deadly saber lands on annihilate instead of force charge as before.

I actually never used Deadly Saber and Force Charge together as a rule even before 3.0. I always used it together in the opener of course, but later I often delayed Force Charge for moments when I knew I'd need a lot of rage or didn't use it if it would rage cap me. So I'm kinda used to thinking of both abilities independently (which also helps when raiding, where this is not possible for several reasons).

Hey Ardo, how has your own parsing been going btw? Has your rotation changed at all since you wrote this mini guide? Personally still working on mine, best I got so far was 4275... but I am seeing some out there breaking some crazy numbers, especialy Excypher with his 4700+... what the heck are those guys doing to break those numbers! Edited December 25, 2014 by CycloH

Hey Hex,

 

I had updated the opening post with my best parse some 10 days ago with a 4871, which is still my best. It's the exact same rotation I posted (good thing I got all the procs for Double Saber Throw in the right places which is pretty important for the exceptional parses). As soon as Torparse accepts German logs as well, I'll put it up there.

 

Merry X-Mas by the way :-)

Edited December 25, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo