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Hook us up with some dual spec.


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Zanguar's Avatar


Zanguar
12.26.2011 , 03:30 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Draccman View Post
Don't be naive. Bioware, you know you are going to have to put it in eventually. Don't let the 10 year old trolls try and convince you that its not needed. WoW has made Dual spec standard MMO practice and rift followed suit. Swtor is missing some key quality of life elements that makes it feel aged even when its a brand new game.

You can even make it so I have to go back to the trainer to do it, that would be fine with me. Dual spec just gives you more possible healers and tanks running around, so I really don't see a downside.

And you 10 year old trolls can shove your choices have consequences crap, this game is full of choices, go make some.
i'm 30 not 10 and for sure not a troll... dual specc is not needed... is it W fought you can't play with your spec in pvp and pve or is it yours?
A: Screen shot or it didn't happen
B: No screen shot, it was a phone conversation...
A: ....screen shot or it didn't happen...

Astron_'s Avatar


Astron_
12.26.2011 , 03:33 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Pilsken View Post
This is a prime example of how the design philosophy of WoW has posioned the MMO genre.
It used to be if you wanted to try another role you had to make a new character and in doing so you HAD to learn the role you chose by doing the leveling content the end result was that we had healer,tanks,dps and some cases support class that knew what they were doing.
Now with entitlement mentality that WoW has breed we are stuck with people who think that MMO=Casual game which is about the farest thing from the true there is.
Now I'm not saying casual gamers are bad or that they should not bother with MMO's however they should know that they aren't going to see everything in the game or get items of equal quality as those of a hardcore raider.
You wouldn't pick up a Flight Sim and instantly expect to be able to fligh a 747.
Sorry got abit side tracked
Back to the point I was making Dual speccing has a tendency do the opposit to what it was made for making grouping easier, since most people have one spec they like more and therefor are better with and then they have a backup one which they keep just in case and know next to nothing about this spec which tends to be Healer or Tank and we all know what happens to groups where the healer or tank isn't geared and/or doesn't know what they are doing.
My five cents on the subject
This is utter bullcrap. Dual-spec in WoW was a great implementation. If i joined as DPS, and the tank left in the middle of the instance, I could just respec and change gear and tank the rest so we didn't have to wait for a new tank.
Another plus was that I learned proper DPS-rotations together with tanking which I already knew a lot about. Made people learn their class better and also made incentive to hoard a new set of gear. Genious move by Blizzard.

AlkalineKitten's Avatar


AlkalineKitten
12.26.2011 , 03:35 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Pilsken View Post
Back to the point I was making Dual speccing has a tendency do the opposit to what it was made for making grouping easier, since most people have one spec they like more and therefor are better with and then they have a backup one which they keep just in case and know next to nothing about this spec which tends to be Healer or Tank and we all know what happens to groups where the healer or tank isn't geared and/or doesn't know what they are doing.
My five cents on the subject
You're forgetting a key game feature.

In TOR, Gear is Gear. Marksman gear the same as Lethality. Healing Operatives gear the same as Concealment. Shadow Tanks wear Infiltration kits, and even if they allowed swapping ACs, then a Shadow and Sage still wear the same gear, covet the same stats. The obvious exception is saber styles/sniper rifles/off hands, depending on the AC flavor, which is fine.

This holds true across all the classes, it's how they designed things.

You will not have people needing for OffSpec, you will not have DPS with awesome gear needing a better "healing" set.
A lesson is learned, but the damage is irreversible.

aznthecapn's Avatar


aznthecapn
12.26.2011 , 03:35 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Wylding View Post
Dual Spec isn't needed at all...WoW is a failed model. Go back to WoW for your dual spec.
Yes, 11 million subscribers at its peak - WoW is clearly a failed model.

Idiot.

Akilae's Avatar


Akilae
12.26.2011 , 03:39 PM | #55
Is it so difficult to spell dual?
~Akilae

AlkalineKitten's Avatar


AlkalineKitten
12.26.2011 , 03:41 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Zanguar View Post
i'm 30 not 10 and for sure not a troll... dual specc is not needed... is it W fought you can't play with your spec in pvp and pve or is it yours?
It's BW's. Not necessarily a fault, but some talents lend themselves to PvP vs PvE.

It's an MMO staple. WoW and other MMOs offered dual spec or multiple easy respecs. Some games like City Of Heroes just made moves work differently in context.

The way ToR chose to approach things, Dual Spec would help. They're the ones who cribbed from the cloth EQ, WoW, and other MMOs are cut from, it stands to reason they should keep up the pace.
A lesson is learned, but the damage is irreversible.

Hajizan's Avatar


Hajizan
12.26.2011 , 03:43 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by carnac_fett View Post
Or you could just wait a few months until TOR has it.
Hopefully at the end of next month all of the wow fan club will be gone.

Kiriath's Avatar


Kiriath
12.26.2011 , 03:44 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelrune View Post
Your logic sir, has taken an arrow to the knee.

Duel spec is necessary considering that a large portion of this game is pvp based. Those that claim that there is no need for duel spec obv do not pvp often OR are not skilled in pvp to the point of realizing that pve and pvp require different specs.


Totally agree!

carnac_fett's Avatar


carnac_fett
12.26.2011 , 03:46 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Hajizan View Post
Hopefully at the end of next month all of the wow fan club will be gone.
I'll still be here. I'm a grown adult who doesn't have to pick sides in a fictitious war between two online games, and can afford to pay for and enjoy both!
Safeguard - Jedi Guardian - Harbinger (US)

Zironic's Avatar


Zironic
12.26.2011 , 03:47 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Beemerchick View Post
Which reinforces what I said. The tank in question has not had a few hours to learn how their class tanks. They've been playing DPS up until this point. Perhaps they have tanked with their current class previously; perhaps not. But even if they have tanked before, they likely have not had "a few hours" of experience.
Everyone has to tank their first instance sometime, you're not going to learn tanking by doings quests in tanking spec either. I suspect the vast majority of players (Thanks to WoW and Dual Spec!) already has tanking experience by now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beemerchick View Post
That isn't what I said, either. Each class plays differently (taking into account the mirror classes, but that isn't what I am referring to). Yes, it is easy to switch from playing a DPS Sorc to a Tank Powertech to a Healer Sage. But that isn't what the thread is about; it's out of the blue switching roles on the same class. It's randomly changing the way a given class plays because the role is different.
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beemerchick View Post
Which goes back to the post I replied to - having two sets of gear that has to be switched based on role. I will admit that TOR does not have quite that issue since a given class will use a given type of weapon or armor. But even then, roles will impact requirements. A DPS Oprative is going to need higher armor than a healer, simply because the healer is not going to be in melee range.
All armors of the same item level have the same armor value in this game, but you just go ahead and make ignorant statements ; ). Usually the way people solve this problem in other games is just look at the Tanks HP and check that it's in tune with the instances difficulty.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beemerchick View Post
No. I am saying I don't want a useless game feature, just because some people can't make up their minds.

I've seen off-spec healers do fine. But they knew they were off-spec, were playing a build they had been playing with all along, and knew how that build worked.
What if I want to play BOTH PvP and PvE? SHOCKING!!!, I want to experiance more then one part of the game!?!?!?!?!ONEONEONE!111

What if I sometimes like healing and sometimes like to DPS? What if I prefer to DPS but don't mind tanking/healing if noone else is there to do the job? Shocking!!!!

What if, oh my god, I want to be in a DPS spec for questing purposes but still want to Heal/Tank when my guild needs me to? Is that a crime against your high ideals about spec purity!?!?!!

Quote: Originally Posted by Beemerchick View Post
And how am I supposed to know that the "tank" in my PUG was a DPS 5 minutes ago? Especially if all they put in chat is that they are a tank? I have enough problems keeping track of everyone in my guild; now I'm supposed to know the normal class of everyone on my server?
If you have a functional brain, there's a number of things you can do. First off you can ask them if they have tanking experience, most people are actually fairly honest about that, if you don't trust them, you can just ask them an easy question "There's a group of 4 mobs where 1 is melee, 2 ranged and one healer, how do you pull them?".

Quote: Originally Posted by Beemerchick View Post
You seem to be missing my point. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. My issue isn't with off-spec. As I said, I've seen a DPS-specced Oprative heal through flashpoints and do fine. My comment was directed at people who (for example) specced DPS-Sage who switched to Healer just before joining the group. Someone running an off-spec role at least knows how their build works. The person who respecced 5 minutes ago very likely does not, especially if (as you stated able) they have not had "a few hours" to play with their build to get a feel for it.
As I've already said, you only do things for the first time once. You have to be seriously unlucky if you keep running into people doing it for their first time.
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