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Bedtime on Concordia

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CharlesBoyd's Avatar


CharlesBoyd
11.03.2014 , 01:17 PM | #51 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by Dimartica View Post
If a Jedi bested her brother in combat, she shouldnt hold a grudge right? Thats like, completely opposite of Canderous/Revan relationship. I thought mando's were supposed to respect and seek out worthy opponents. Temple of coursaunt sacking was much more BH -like, a contract hit that she took to "avenge" her brother....? My Merc will be disrespecting her for sure.
This contradiction stood out to me as well, to be honest! It came from a brief passage in the Journal of Gnost-Dural. I've quoted it below, with a bit of emphasis added:

Quote: Originally Posted by Journal of Gnost Dural
Only a few years later, she [Shae Vizla] participated in a bold attack on a Republic political convoy in which her brother was killed by Jedi Master Aurei Eadon. To avenge her brother, she later challenged Master Aurei to a duel, but was refused.
As I wasn't the author of the journal, I can't speak to their exact intent. It's a very short passage, so there's not a lot of room for expressing nuances of Mando culture, and I'm loathe to "overrule" someone else's work just because my initial interpretation of it is contradictory. So, I gave it another look.

I think the most important factor to consider with the Journal is that, like Bedtime on Concordia, it's written to present the views of specific characters in-universe --characters other than Shae herself. We aren't getting Shae's own thoughts or words about her actions, so it's all effectively hearsay. But if we look at the sequence of events--brother killed, challenge issued and refused, assault on Jedi Temple--it's easy to see how the narrative of revenge and a personal grudge against Jedi would end up as a common assumption in-universe.

To my mind, Shae probably did care very much about her brother; as this story exemplifies, family is very important to Mandalorians. She was still young when he died, and I think that led her to fixate on Jedi not just as a personal challenge to her own family and clan, but as a challenge to all Mandalorians. So she looked for opportunities to win victories over them, to prove that the Mandos' strength doesn't end where lightsabers begin. Once that was done, she moved on; given that she's made no special effort to hunt down Jedi for several decades by the time of Shadow of Revan, it seems safe to say that she holds no specific enmity toward them anymore. That challenge has already been beaten, and now she's looking for something bigger, as Galron theorizes.

All that's to say that it's something I've definitely thought about, but that may never get fully nailed down in-game. I'd love to hear what you folks think on the issue!
Charles Boyd | Creative Director
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
11.03.2014 , 02:33 PM | #52
That might be Canderous's feelings towards Revan, but not every Mandalorian felt the same about Revan. Most held a serious grudge against him, despite what Mandalorian ways dictate. I don't want to spoil anything you might not have read, but you should read the Revan book by Drew Karpyshyn.
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Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
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TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
11.03.2014 , 07:15 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by CharlesBoyd View Post
All that's to say that it's something I've definitely thought about, but that may never get fully nailed down in-game. I'd love to hear what you folks think on the issue!
I think its not a case of having a grudge against the Jedi for killing her brother, but more of a Grudge against them for backing down from a fight. She wanted to avenge her brother in a dual, the Jedi who killer her brother refused. In her mind, the jedi are Cowards who only fight when they are forced to. So, to Avenge her brother, she brought the fight to the Jedi Temple, where she proceeded to crush it.

Revan and Canderous on the other hand, is a completely different story. When Revan saw the Mandalorians attacking outer rim worlds, he knew they would be a problem, and went against the councils wishes to stop the Mandalorians at any cost. Unlike Aurei Eadon, who backed away from a fight with Shae Vizla, Revan went up to Mandalore the Ultimate and personally challenged him to single combat, before beating the crap out of him.
Instead of backing away from a fight, Revan issued the challenge. And that is why Canderous respected him.
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Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
11.04.2014 , 05:24 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
That might be Canderous's feelings towards Revan, but not every Mandalorian felt the same about Revan. Most held a serious grudge against him, despite what Mandalorian ways dictate. I don't want to spoil anything you might not have read, but you should read the Revan book by Drew Karpyshyn.
Recommending that book to someone is like recommending they jump off the Empire State Building to feel the rush cause you don't see it anywhere else. Not only have we seen other Mandalorians act like this, but damn that book sucked.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
11.04.2014 , 12:07 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Recommending that book to someone is like recommending they jump off the Empire State Building to feel the rush cause you don't see it anywhere else. Not only have we seen other Mandalorians act like this, but damn that book sucked.
Such is your personal opinion, shared by very few.
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Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
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BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
11.04.2014 , 03:37 PM | #57
I see nothing wrong with Shae Vizla's holding a grudge because a Jedi killed her brother. she's a Mandalorian... but she's not a droid following a program she's a human being, with all the emotions and contridictions therein. in short the "avenge her brother" bit just makes her seem more human. is she slightly hipocritical with the grudge? maybe. but that's not unuseal. I mean mandalorian hipocrits exist. Tarro Blood anyone?

Dithrial's Avatar


Dithrial
11.04.2014 , 08:03 PM | #58
Great read. It is not strange for a mandalorian to want to avenge a fallen comrade. Lets use an example from the movies, shall we? Boba Fett, seeks revenge on all Jedi for the defeat of his father, Jango on the planet Geonosis. Pretty cut and dry, right? Why do mandolorians even want to be bounty hunters anyway? They're a culture of warrior people, taught that you win honor in combat. The higher-value of the target, the more prestige you gain. They train all their life to be the best in any combat situation. Kind of like the warriors of sparta, training from a very young age, with real weapons, and real blood. For anyone who wants to learn more about how mandalorians might act like in combat situations, i suggest the following book series: 1: the Republic Commando series, by Karen Traviss. 2: the Bounty Hunter Wars, by K.W.Jeter. Both excellent reads, both true to the SW universe time line. Personally, i favored the Republic Commando books, i could not put them down. Reading those first would be best, then read the B.H. Wars, as then you might have better understanding about how the characters would feel.
HONOR, COURAGE, DUTY, SACRIFICE. -Dithrial De'Kai-
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AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
11.05.2014 , 02:03 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by CharlesBoyd View Post
That challenge has already been beaten, and now she's looking for something bigger, as Galron theorizes.
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It always wins because it is everywhere.
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Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
11.05.2014 , 10:12 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Such is your personal opinion, shared by very few.
What?

Everyone I've ever talked to hated that book. Go over to the Star Wars discussion section and ask which is the worst EU book, I'll pay you 5500 cartel coins if that isn't the most common response.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage