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No more 8-man daily GF??


Mccordrm's Avatar


Mccordrm
10.22.2014 , 10:04 AM | #1
I can see you added 16-man... but at the expense of 8-man? Why on earth would you make it harder to queue for the daily GF Op?

KTap's Avatar


KTap
10.22.2014 , 10:06 AM | #2
I'd guess because the idea of group finder is to queue and get grouped with some random people, not create an 8 man ops group + get extra rewards for using group finder.

CmdrShpd's Avatar


CmdrShpd
10.22.2014 , 10:08 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Mccordrm View Post
I can see you added 16-man... but at the expense of 8-man? Why on earth would you make it harder to queue for the daily GF Op?
Given that the majority of players play dps, it should actually easier to queue for GF now for most people because the required ratio of tanks to dps is now smaller.
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dbears's Avatar


dbears
10.22.2014 , 10:16 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KTap View Post
I'd guess because the idea of group finder is to queue and get grouped with some random people, not create an 8 man ops group + get extra rewards for using group finder.
It's to increase the amount of people that get in to Ops Groups.

With 8 man, the DPS to Tank ratio is 2:1. With 16 man, the DPS to Tank ratio is 5:1. This will allow many many more people to get in to Ops Groups because, let's face it, there's way more DPS than there are Tanks.

In other words.. the same 2 Tanks that would have tanked an 8 man with 6 other people, can Tank a 16 man with 14 other people.

TL;DR, The amount of Tanks (not DPS, and very seldomly Healers) dictates the amount of groups that get in to group finder Operations. Since 8 and 16 man require the same number of Tanks (2), making group finder 16 man gets, overall, more people in to Operations.

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
10.22.2014 , 11:12 AM | #5
8 man is also harder than 16 man. For a pub group that isn't very coordinated, 8 person groups can be brutal. 16 is much more forgiving.

16 person groups will also help alleviate DPS waiting around all day for a pop.
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Rithoma's Avatar


Rithoma
10.22.2014 , 11:25 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
8 man is also harder than 16 man. For a pub group that isn't very coordinated, 8 person groups can be brutal. 16 is much more forgiving.

16 person groups will also help alleviate DPS waiting around all day for a pop.
The toughest fight on SM atm is the Dread Council in DP. I lost count how many 16M fell apart before even trying it or after wiping.

During the period of 8M ops in groupfinder, there was not a single DP run that wasn't finished by the groups I were with, even with some first timers in the group. 16M will just bring back a lot of quittung and frustration to many SM raiders. Since 8M requires everyone to on their guard during boss fights, people will actually try to contribute. In 16M too many people rely on the rest of the group and just want to be carried. That's why 16M groups more often fail than 8M groups. Furthermore, players in 16M tend to be more rude than in 8M, which will lead to less beginners and casual raiders joining them.

Changing groupfinder operations to 16M only is a bad thing for the game and for new players in particular. That is just my opinion, of course.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
10.22.2014 , 12:35 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Rithoma View Post
The toughest fight on SM atm is the Dread Council in DP. I lost count how many 16M fell apart before even trying it or after wiping.

During the period of 8M ops in groupfinder, there was not a single DP run that wasn't finished by the groups I were with, even with some first timers in the group. 16M will just bring back a lot of quittung and frustration to many SM raiders. Since 8M requires everyone to on their guard during boss fights, people will actually try to contribute. In 16M too many people rely on the rest of the group and just want to be carried. That's why 16M groups more often fail than 8M groups. Furthermore, players in 16M tend to be more rude than in 8M, which will lead to less beginners and casual raiders joining them.

Changing groupfinder operations to 16M only is a bad thing for the game and for new players in particular. That is just my opinion, of course.
Hmmm... I'm not sure I agree. I think those who don't want to try don't bother queuing up as it's not like GF operations are insta-pops. There are those, however, who aren't as skilled. It is much easier to cover for a less skilled DPS or healer in 16 man with more people to pick up the slack.

I will also say that it should be much easier to get groups since you don't need any additional tanks to get 2 more healers and 6 more DPS in an operation now.
I have opinions and stuff

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
10.22.2014 , 12:37 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Rithoma View Post
The toughest fight on SM atm is the Dread Council in DP. I lost count how many 16M fell apart before even trying it or after wiping.

During the period of 8M ops in groupfinder, there was not a single DP run that wasn't finished by the groups I were with, even with some first timers in the group. 16M will just bring back a lot of quittung and frustration to many SM raiders. Since 8M requires everyone to on their guard during boss fights, people will actually try to contribute. In 16M too many people rely on the rest of the group and just want to be carried. That's why 16M groups more often fail than 8M groups. Furthermore, players in 16M tend to be more rude than in 8M, which will lead to less beginners and casual raiders joining them.

Changing groupfinder operations to 16M only is a bad thing for the game and for new players in particular. That is just my opinion, of course.
I'm not sorry to say that Is not my experience, at all.

16m groups have been FAR more successful, in my experience, in both DF and DP. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to see why. Your margin of error on 16m is much wider than on 8m.

Don't take my word for it. That has come from both SWTOR and WoW developers (obviously 25m in WoW)

/lol @ the fact that you went the "they try harder in 8m thus it keeps the plebians and noobs/casuals out" excuse...
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MisterBlackJack's Avatar


MisterBlackJack
10.22.2014 , 12:46 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
I'm not sorry to say that Is not my experience, at all.

16m groups have been FAR more successful, in my experience, in both DF and DP. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to see why. Your margin of error on 16m is much wider than on 8m.

Don't take my word for it. That has come from both SWTOR and WoW developers (obviously 25m in WoW)

/lol @ the fact that you went the "they try harder in 8m thus it keeps the plebians and noobs/casuals out" excuse...
And what is wrong with wanting to get players to be better? the lack of good effort in 16 man is the reason why i prefered the 8 man GF and hoped they kept it that way. Cause there should be better rewards for the type of group that requires more effort and coordination rather than the larger group. Which is why i always felt more Ultimate comms should go to 8 man than 16 man
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CmdrShpd's Avatar


CmdrShpd
10.22.2014 , 12:46 PM | #10
Actually, I do think that 8-man DP Council is substantially easier than it is on 16-man, because it requires coordination from a much smaller group of people. That said, the vast majority of other fights are easier for 16-man.
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