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Class Roles won't change in 3.0, right?

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Class Roles won't change in 3.0, right?
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Highsis's Avatar


Highsis
10.14.2014 , 07:32 AM | #1
I'm very conflicted as to what classes I'm going to roll because I heard everything is going to change when 3.0 kicks in. However, basic class roles would not shift, would it? Does anyone have speculations? For instance, would operatives still be the best healers and whatnot?

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
10.14.2014 , 07:36 AM | #2
Well in terms of 'best' I expect that stuff to change, but in terms of can an operative heal or dps but not tank I expect to remain the same.

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
10.14.2014 , 07:46 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
I'm very conflicted as to what classes I'm going to roll because I heard everything is going to change when 3.0 kicks in.
You heard wrong. Whoever your source was, you should think twice before trusting them in the future.

Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
However, basic class roles would not shift, would it?
No. Class roles remain the same. Advanced classes stay the same. Advanced class specializations are the same, even to the point of having pretty much the same abilities.

Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
Does anyone have speculations?
Why speculate when we have hard information? (That's still development info, but its unlikely to change much... maybe some percentages or small stat tweaks).

Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
For instance, would operatives still be the best healers and whatnot?
No.

You should never assume that any particular class will always be the "best" at any particular thing. MMOs are living games and they get rebalanced all the time. Operatives/Scoundrels will be healers. So are Sorcs/Sages and Commandos/Mercs. You should never assume that one will be reliably better than another for a long period of time.

For the moment, Operatives/Scoundrels are regarded as the "best". That's an opinion backed by subjective stats. With 3.0, Sorc/Sage and Commando/Merc abilities are being rebalanced and modified. There's no telling just who the community will arbitrarily determine to be the "best".

The only guarantee is that the community's definition of "best" will be subjective and that the difference from one healer to another, one DPS to another, and one tank to another will be minimized. If it isn't at launch, it likely will be in the future. The whole point of this change is to make it easier to balance all the classes, so there is no clear "best".

Highsis's Avatar


Highsis
10.14.2014 , 09:19 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
.....

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm not familiar with the game and can't derive much info from the official announcements.

To just confirm, judging from sorcerer abilities, you think a specialization's identity such as an operative medic being a 'stealthy healer' or a specific specialization having 'burst damage' as opposed to 'damage over time' would not change, right?

I'm more concerned with class/specialization identity than their competence, so to speak. I want to distribute roles evenly, with my favourite specializations on my favourite faction. It will cause a identity crisis if that core function changes.

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
10.14.2014 , 10:31 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
To just confirm, judging from sorcerer abilities, you think a specialization's identity such as an operative medic being a 'stealthy healer' or a specific specialization having 'burst damage' as opposed to 'damage over time' would not change, right?
Nope. ... or Yup. Or... Negative questions are impossible:

Your understanding is correct. That's exactly the sort of thing (they say) they're trying to preserve: They are not changing the types of roles an AC can play, nor the overall feel of those different roles.

For the moment, we only have one example, the Sorceror. And the three trees have been turned into three DIsciplines: Healing, DPS-Burst and DPS-DoT.

However, there are differences. Sorc was popular for both DPS and Heal/DPS hybrids, and while they are killing all chance of hybrids, they seem to have acknowledged the usefulness of them. The DPS-Burst tree (Lightning) is getting some bonuses to DoT abilities, and the DPS-DoT tree (Madness) is getting some improvements to burst abilities and some mild healing improvements.

Even more important is that all three Disciplines share a pool of optional extra abilities that range from the popular heal-on-Overload, to mild damage buffs for both burst and DoT skills, to survivability skills. The community seems particularly obsessed with one upgrade that would let Sorcs cast one of the core abilities from their Discipline while moving. You don't get to pick which one, but it basically turns one of your stand-and-wait attacks into a running-channel attack. It will likely make both healing and DPS a little more survivable.

Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
I'm more concerned with class/specialization identity than their competence, so to speak. I want to distribute roles evenly, with my favourite specializations on my favourite faction. It will cause a identity crisis if that core function changes.
The new Disciplines system is all about maintaining identity. They wanted to keep the same feel, while improving balance across all ACs. You should expect a little less "purity" in the builds: DoT specs will likely get some small buffs in non-DoT skills, and the extra abilities will give you the option to blur that line further if you like. However, they're not removing the current "feel" of the trees. If anything, they are "enforcing" them.

No one can say for sure until we play it, but with the information we have now, and what you're saying about how you play, I think the Disciplines system is exactly what you'd want it to be: Strong identity with some option to adjust for different personality/playstyle.

AlexModny's Avatar


AlexModny
10.14.2014 , 10:35 AM | #6 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
No. Class roles remain the same. Advanced classes stay the same. Advanced class specializations are the same, even to the point of having pretty much the same abilities.
Malastare is 100% correct. Disciplines/3.0 will not cause any changes to which roles are available to an Advanced Classes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
To just confirm, judging from sorcerer abilities, you think a specialization's identity such as an operative medic being a 'stealthy healer' or a specific specialization having 'burst damage' as opposed to 'damage over time' would not change, right?
That is correct. No former Skill Tree Specialization (Medicine Operative is still, in your words, a 'stealthy healer') has had their role or identity changed. The biggest change is some former specializations have had their names changed as there are no longer fully shared specs. For example, in the Live Stream on Disciplines you could see that Madness Assassin had a name change to Hatred, but it still retains its former identity.
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AlexModny's Avatar


AlexModny
10.14.2014 , 10:41 AM | #7 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
I think the Disciplines system is exactly what you'd want it to be: Strong identity with some option to adjust for different personality/playstyle.
The sound of that I like!
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Macarrin's Avatar


Macarrin
10.14.2014 , 10:52 AM | #8
I'm a little disappointed. I was hoping for a new Cunning tank tree to go with all that shield/defense Cunning gear I keep looting

Anysao's Avatar


Anysao
10.14.2014 , 11:20 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Macarrin View Post
I'm a little disappointed. I was hoping for a new Cunning tank tree to go with all that shield/defense Cunning gear I keep looting
Actually I kind of feel for you... Why is it we've never seen a ranged tank class? The gear is obviously in the game for it...
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Max_Killjoy's Avatar


Max_Killjoy
10.14.2014 , 11:29 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
...
The new Disciplines system is all about maintaining identity.
...
However, they're not removing the current "feel" of the trees. If anything, they are "enforcing" them.
...
Strong identity with some option to adjust for different personality/playstyle.
...
And that's actually the problem with the new system -- cramming "identity" down the players throats regardless of what they happen to have been doing with the character in the current system.