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Drop the cents in the GTN pricing PLZ !!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Drop the cents in the GTN pricing PLZ !!

DOHboy's Avatar


DOHboy
09.26.2014 , 01:24 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Orizuru View Post
I'll never understand why people feel they need to argue the same points as long as they do. If you think it's a pointless and needless change, say so once, let it be known and let that be the end of it. This entire thread is just a way to communicate an idea. BioWare isn't going to pass on or act upon the idea based on who wins the pissing contest on the forums. They will evaluated the facts and make the decisions that are best for the company and the players.

State your opinions, reason them out and justify them if you must, clarify them when they are not being understood, but for God's sake stop repeating the same arguements over and over just because someone doesn't agree with you.

We get it, some people don't think this is a problem. I'm inclined to agree with that, but just because I don't think it's a problem doesn't mean I have to convince everyone else that it isn't a problem.
potential language:

Shoraan's Avatar


Shoraan
09.26.2014 , 01:24 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
[...]
There is no argument that can be made that beats the simple fact that people not paying attention to what they are doing are the problem, not the GTN. We don't need to be forced to use whole numbers and we don't need to have false data on the GTN in order to prevent people who are not paying attention from doing something they wouldn't do if they used just a shred of common sense and due diligence.
We already have false data on the GTN anyway, since rounding to 2 decimals is just as arbitrary as not showing any decimals.

And there is one simple argument why this should and probably will be changed: money.
If this problem gets out of hand it will cost Bioware money. (Support staff doesn't work for free.)

I am pretty sure that this will be changed eventually, just as the involuntary PVP flagging issue was changed (at least partially). The same kind of arguments were brought up back then, too.
"Just be careful and don't use AoE."
"Completely your fault if you lack the situational awareness and didn't see the (stealthed) flagged enemies."

For the record, I have never fallen for that trick. Neither have I been tricked by spam in my mailbox. Still, I'm happy that companies at least try to filter out spam instead of saying, "it's the user's fault if they can't handle it".

KonichiwaWitch's Avatar


KonichiwaWitch
09.26.2014 , 01:39 PM | #113
I'm happy for the people who feel good about themselves for not ever making this particular type of error. I feel confident they will continue to not make this type of the error if all prices have the same number of decimals!

However, if multiple people are admitting to both making this mistake, and people are also admitting to trying to trick people, then what is the harm in unifying the GTN price formatting? It's just a number format change to make it easier on the eyes. Any professional service that you deal with in this world should display a list of prices with a consistent number format.

While the issue may be user error, making this small improvement will reduce some number of petitions and complaints for Bioware. It will show goodwill to customers. It's low hanging fruit for improvement.

MillionsKNives's Avatar


MillionsKNives
09.26.2014 , 01:57 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by DOHboy View Post
It has nothing to do with empathy or me being an A-hole or anything else. I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility.
The lack of empathy would be the part where you're so stuck on blaming the user and touting personal responsibility that you don't care how it affects other players. All you see is a bunch of stupid people who get what they deserve, because they're not as careful you are.

Quote:
I see warning signs on devices that have no reason to have warning signs.
I'm not surprised that you'd mention this, given your posts in this thread. This isn't a case of "what the hell did you think peanut butter was made out of?!", it's a case of inconsistently displayed numbers (potentially coupled with sorting that's buggy) leading players to carelessly purchase items for the wrong price. And while I understand the sentiment of "if you need a warning sign to tell you not to stick your hand in a blender then you deserve whatever you get", not all stupid mistakes are created equal.

Most of the stupid warnings that you see lately (i.e., a bag of nuts that has the warning "may contain nuts") aren't actually meant to prevent people from being idiots, and in that sense they are completely useless. They are there for the company to cover their a**, legally. On the other hand, the change provided in this thread would actually have a benefit for the user by more clearly conveying the price that they will be paying. Just like any other UI feature meant to convey information, it doesn't matter whether the information is provided so much as how it is provided. In that sense it actually has a tangible benefit. It's a lot more akin to creating a saw that stops itself than it is adding a warning label that says "keep hands away from blade". Sure, you can argue that people should be more careful when using a saw and call them stupid when they chop their hand off, but it happens and it's going to happen no matter how much you tell people that they are stupid. At some point you just have to acknowledge the issue and try to find a way to fix it. In this case it's an extremely simple fix that has really no drawbacks.

Quote:
in this point there is one fundamental issue they need to understand no matter what the radix point looks like (, a . a & a # etc) there are only ever two digits to the right of it. Not 1, not 3..2 trailing zeros are eliminated specifically to avoid any confusion. IF they listed 3 decimal places ##0 then YES I would agree it needs to be corrected and adjusted. But until they do. ####.## ####,## or ####$## ####:## etc. will always represent the same number.
You can't argue away careless mistakes.

DOHboy's Avatar


DOHboy
09.26.2014 , 02:09 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by MillionsKNives View Post
The lack of empathy would be the part where you're so stuck on blaming the user and touting personal responsibility that you don't care how it affects other players. All you see is a bunch of stupid people who get what they deserve, because they're not as careful you are.



I'm not surprised that you'd mention this, given your posts in this thread. This isn't a case of "what the hell did you think peanut butter was made out of?!", it's a case of inconsistently displayed numbers (potentially coupled with sorting that's buggy) leading players to carelessly purchase items for the wrong price. And while I understand the sentiment of "if you need a warning sign to tell you not to stick your hand in a blender then you deserve whatever you get", not all stupid mistakes are created equal.

Most of the stupid warnings that you see lately (i.e., a bag of nuts that has the warning "may contain nuts") aren't actually meant to prevent people from being idiots, and in that sense they are completely useless. They are there for the company to cover their a**, legally. On the other hand, the change provided in this thread would actually have a benefit for the user by more clearly conveying the price that they will be paying. Just like any other UI feature meant to convey information, it doesn't matter whether the information is provided so much as how it is provided. In that sense it actually has a tangible benefit. It's a lot more akin to creating a saw that stops itself than it is adding a warning label that says "keep hands away from blade". Sure, you can argue that people should be more careful when using a saw and call them stupid when they chop their hand off, but it happens and it's going to happen no matter how much you tell people that they are stupid. At some point you just have to acknowledge the issue and try to find a way to fix it. In this case it's an extremely simple fix that has really no drawbacks.



You can't argue away careless mistakes.
can't argue away careless mistakes..instead we'll complain about them and make someone else do somethign so we can keep on making careless mistakes.

so what happens WHEN they fix this, and it keeps happening? Do we implement a refund feature? In that span of an hour where an item is sold, it allows the buyer to 'refund it" thus removing it from the GTN while not crediting the seller any credits...so that becomes abused as well to drive up prices by removing low hanging fruit.

at what point is a person no longer responsible for their own actions?

MillionsKNives's Avatar


MillionsKNives
09.26.2014 , 02:25 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by DOHboy View Post
can't argue away careless mistakes..instead we'll complain about them and make someone else do somethign so we can keep on making careless mistakes.

so what happens WHEN they fix this, and it keeps happening? Do we implement a refund feature? In that span of an hour where an item is sold, it allows the buyer to 'refund it" thus removing it from the GTN while not crediting the seller any credits...so that becomes abused as well to drive up prices by removing low hanging fruit.

at what point is a person no longer responsible for their own actions?
I'm not looking for the eradication of every possible way that someone could be careless or stupid. However, I think that this particular case leaves open a simple solution that would greatly decrease the occurance of incorrectly purchased items, due to improved clarity in the UI.

To more directly answer your question, I don't see any other simple changes that could be made in this area that would help careless buyers, and unless someone can come up with some other good solution then I'd have no problem saying that at that point the player just has to deal with it. There is only so far that a company should be expected to go in order to prevent careless mistakes. But just like with adding the Buy Back tab to the vendors, it's also not unreasonable to request that they do put some effort in, even if it's for nothing other than to cater to careless people.

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
09.26.2014 , 03:27 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by MillionsKNives View Post
I'm not looking for the eradication of every possible way that someone could be careless or stupid. However, I think that this particular case leaves open a simple solution that would greatly decrease the occurance of incorrectly purchased items, due to improved clarity in the UI.

To more directly answer your question, I don't see any other simple changes that could be made in this area that would help careless buyers, and unless someone can come up with some other good solution then I'd have no problem saying that at that point the player just has to deal with it. There is only so far that a company should be expected to go in order to prevent careless mistakes. But just like with adding the Buy Back tab to the vendors, it's also not unreasonable to request that they do put some effort in, even if it's for nothing other than to cater to careless people.
It's important to note that some of us are asking for something/more than just protection for buyers. The fact that the system is so easily used to scam people means that lots of people are trying to do it, and that causes a problem identical to e-mail spam, which is a problem for everybody. Reducing the number of people scammed is not just handholding for them, but making it less profitable, and thus less likely that scammers would keep spamming the GTN with their scams.
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branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
09.26.2014 , 05:22 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Orizuru View Post
I'll never understand why people feel they need to argue the same points as long as they do. If you think it's a pointless and needless change, say so once, let it be known and let that be the end of it.
And what possessed you to post that, other than unintentional irony?

Quote:
We get it, some people don't think this is a problem. I'm inclined to agree with that, but just because I don't think it's a problem doesn't mean I have to convince everyone else that it isn't a problem.
There are any number of things some players think are a "problem," from not being able to log in to robes clipping through speeders. Some of them are just way too trivial for the game makers to spend resources fixing.

This is one of them. This is a player-to-player interaction issue, like "That guy I gave GB access to looted my GB and quit the guild!" Both cases, too bad, so sad. Last I check. TOR is just a game and creds are Monopoly money.

If the "victims" of GTN price "scamming" get cheesed off enough, they can unsubscribe and tell BWEA the reason why. Enough people do that, BWEA will "fix" the "problem."

LyraineAlei's Avatar


LyraineAlei
09.26.2014 , 08:26 PM | #119
Hmm.

I have a thread trying to keep all of this scam/not scam debate straight. It's a little old now, but should I add this thread to that one?

.... Meh. *Grabs the popcorn* I say this has been argued to death, and am I the only one who keeps the purchase confirmation popup setting on? It repeats the price in a bigger size for the total price and slows the purchase down enough for this "scam" or whatever to not work.

Solloby's Avatar


Solloby
09.26.2014 , 09:17 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by DOHboy View Post
actually what should be done, is let me set a unit price, and let the game figure out the total price.
This is a really nice suggestion, it would make pricing stacks of items easier and quicker for sellers.
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