ETA on Advanced Class change?

Now you've disregarded my previous comment. By buying a 55, you go from 1 level 55 toon, to 2 level 55 toons. That comes with all kinds of benefits and perks outside of simply "respeccing" a character.

So...you've never played the NES/SNES without using a game genie? You've never played Dragon Age without taking advantage of the bugs and exploits?

People play a game because it's fun, and they enjoy the experience. People want the ability to swap ACs because, for whatever reason, they believe their experience will be better if they were the other AC.

Huh? Why on earth would me paying for a server transfer make the game worse for someone else? Why would me paying money to change my character's appearance make the game worse for someone else? And, here comes the kicker, why would me changing one of my Marauders to a Juggernaut make the game worse for someone else?

People said level 43 chest pieces would turn the game into P2W and drive people away. Still waiting for that to happen. People said +41 crystals with a min level <50 only available on the CM would turn the game into P2W and drive people away. Still waiting for that to happen, too.

There is a line. Offering BiS raid loot on a CM is across that line. I would even say, just using my gut to judge, that 2nd BiS, or even 3rd BiS gear on the CM is acoss that line. Mostly, that's because PvE gear IS the end game, and offering to skip the end game on a CM is a bad plan.

All the arguments for not allowing AC swap could be applied to skill points, too. Why let people respec skill points? It's lazy. If they picked the wrong talent, then they should be smarter. Reroll. Each tree plays quite a bit differently than the others. Level up in that tree so you learn it.

You get nothing extra for swapping ACs. It's just a respec.

If it was feasible for them to do a base class swap (ie Jedi Knight to Trooper), I'd be for that, too. Because it's just a respec. But since there are these really interesting, involved class stories that are character driven and somewhat vital, that's not really on option.

ACs don't have that problem. Again, it's just a respec. Nothing is gained.

As I said before: control freakery. They don't like the idea for themselves, so no one should be able to do it.

You've disregarded my argument that those are actually two toons that you have. By having the option to change your Jugg to a Mara, while I have to have both a Jugg and Mara if I cannot afford to swap, you are getting two toons for the price of one. I would make the same argument if respecs weren't free or cost anything other than in-game credits for non-subs.

You can't really compare a solo player game with a multiplayer online game. What I choose to do with a copy of a game that no one else is involved in is completely my decision. In a world where you can impact other players through your play, there are issues. For instance, SWTOR specifically doesn't allow you to use what is basically a game genie while playing this game or you would be banned.

No one small change that BW makes to allow people to pay money for something will ruin the game. The combination will, however. Currently you can pay to transfer toons and, by default, to copy your legacy to any server you want to play on. It gives those with more money a step up in leveling on another server and is very convenient for those who do so. It doesn't hurt anyone, but it begins to fuel resentment between the haves and have-nots. Eventually, there are so many convenient options that those who play for free or only pay a sub will feel alienated and leave if they don't have the money to spend on things.

The CM color crystals actually are a huge P2W mechanic. If you don't have one, you are at a huge disadvantage to every other player in the game. Now they made them available on the GTN so those with irl money could make more credits, but this is still P2W to have the best stats. There is currently a line, where you have to level up each individual character and can change your specialization at any time for free with a sub or a small in-game credit payment without. You're drawing a new line to include AC changes. Then there's a new line for class changes. Then you just buy what you want in the end.


Now we're getting to the part of the argument that no one agrees on. You are of the opinion that it's ok to move the line to include AC changes because respec works fine. Others are of the opinion that the line stops at respecs. I think it has a lot to do with perspective. I know that Raansu is primarily in the PvP forums and from a PvP perspective, the ability to change to a different AC that is stronger in the current meta without having to level it up is P2W. In the realm of RP or PvE or GSF, this change really doesn't have any negative impacts from a gameplay perspective other than level 55s who don't know how to play their class (which we know happens already).

As I said before, they don't really use the basic skills. They have them, but are rarely used (unless you are counting the free shot or focus builder strike). Majority of skills you use are skills of your advanced class and your spec.

And it affects the game as a whole in much more than just switching weapons. Say I switch from healing sage to tank shadow. I need completely new set of gear (unlike switching from healing sage to dps sage, where my equipment remains somewhat usable). This could lead to people demanding that all stats are merged into one big pool so that they do not have to get new gear for their switching, and so on and so on (I believe it is called salami method)

My main is a Powertech (Advanced Prototype), I also have a Mercenary (Arsenal) they make extensive use of Rapid Shots (basic free attack), Unload, Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Flamethrower, Death from Above, Determination, Electro dart (merc has range but effectively the same skill), Energy Shield, Hydraulic Overrides, Chaff Flare, Kolto Overload, Stealth Scan and Thermal Sensor Override.
In fact, their main attack rotation tends to take a couple of skills from the Bounty Hunter ability pool, a couple from the Powertech or Merc pool and then the couple from their chosen Spec.
Good old Sage to Shadow (Sorcerer to Assassin) swap gets brought into the discussion a lot. But, how is the gear change any different to that required for a Powertech respeccing from Tank to DPS (or DPS to Tank)?

How does a player new to WoW know how the class he chooses at CREATION will play at level cap? Can he cry "I didn't know it would be like this. WAH! WAH! WAH!" and change his class? No, he cannot. He must level a new character of the new class he wishes to play.

That is exactly how a player can play a new class in this game. One simply has to level that new class.

The class you choose at creation in WoW has 3 talent trees (4 for druids). Classes (AC's) in this game each have 3 talent trees. You can change your talent point allocations in WoW. You can change your skill (talent) point allocation in this game.

The biggest difference between classes in WoW and classes (AC's) in this game is that in this game you choose your class (AC) at level 10, not at creation.

I ask you again, what is the difference between not being able to change your class if you choose it at creation and not being able to change your class if you choose it at level 10?

If and when new AC's are added, then AC swapping may well become a reality. After all, species changes were implemented at around the same time as the introduction of the Cathar race.

Until that time, though, I do not expect to see class (AC) changes implemented, given BW's absolute and total silence on the this subject in the almost two years since the infamous "likely happen" statement. Have we seen one gold post or heard one peep to let us know if they are still even on the wall of crazy? No.

I think this is exactly what the Advanced Classes are now, the first step of specialisation. They are meaningful in that they separate out the core healing and tanking abilities that are available to all the specs of an Advanced Class. Even an Arsenal specced Mercenary has access to a couple of self heals, as all Powertech specs have access to using an offhand shield generator and using the taunt abilities. I feel that this is an important balance issue within the design of the game.
However they are certainly not meaningful when it comes to determining the class story line and companion interactions.
That's a whole lot of work to effectively end up at the same point as you have with the Classes as they currently exist.
A Bounty Hunter with the ability to swap between ACs would have access to a Tank spec, a Heal spec a Melee DPS spec and a Ranged DPS spec.
Where it falls short is those Classes where their ACs don't cover all the roles such as the Sith Warrior/ Jedi Knight (Tank and Melee DPS only) and Imperial Agent/ Smuggler (Heal and DPS).
I would much rather the Devs spent the time developing new content for the existing Classes, adding new species such as Wookiees, Trandoshan or Rodian (I mean this is supposed to be a Star Wars game and let's be honest how much dialogue and romance -two of the main reasons given for not having non-humanoid species in- is going on in PvP ), or a little more love to the guilds (Conquest was much appreciated and has really livened up the guild I'm in) such as banners.
If AC swapping does make it into the game I hope it comes in at the same time as expanding upon the existing ACs available to the current classes. Not only would this serve to eliminate those roles missing from certain classes but it would allow for certain playstyles to be fully implemented (please, a Mando Bounty Hunter that can actually use melee weapons on the hunt, you know like Torian and Akaavi do ). And, it would also put a wider demand for the AC swap function much as species change did with the release of the Cathar.

I will concede that AC swapping could allow a person who drops CC like crazy (because you know an AC swap is going to be at least 1000 CC to make any swap a big decision) to bounce between ACs to effectively have both skill sets with only leveling one toon. However, I would argue vehemently that it's "two toons for the price of one." That CC cost is already a major factor. Far more than if you had one toon and didn't do AC swaps.

Also, the person who actually leveled 2 toons has an advantage. They can do twice as many crew skills at a time. They can twice as many dailies and weeklies, which, when combined with the presence of legacy gear, means they can gear up an individual toon twice as fast. So again, the person doing AC swaps doesn't have 2 toons. They have 1 toon with the skill sets of two ACs (though, only one AC at a time).

I was not comparing those games to SWTOR. I was showing how, even when a shortcut is present, you don't always take it. Even though you could cheat in Dragon Age to get max level right away, many, if not most, people that played it didn't use the exploit because they enjoy the leveling process as part of the story and game. Whether it has an impact on other players or not was irrelevant to my point, which was: when it comes to enjoying a video game, it's actually quite common for people to skip a shortcut in order to enjoy the ride.

I won't disagree here, because I've seen it happen in other hobbies, such as Magic: the Gathering. A kid can't afford to buy the new stuff, gets disillusioned, and leave. But with those hobbies, you can't get the goodies without shelling out money. That's not the case here. It's just easier if you have the discretionary money.

Which is truly remarkable. MMO communities can be so strange, because they react to monetization the way they do. No other industry caters to those who can't pay like MMOs. And you'd be hard pressed to find a hobby that's cheaper than an MMO subscription, especially if you didn't pay any extra for CC.

I don't see this. You have a slight edge that continues to diminish until it vanishes completely at level 50. Considering that the PvP completely obviates the crystal (bolster, hello!), at what way is someone disadvantaged for the crystal?

Slippery slope fallacy. Just because they give us AC swaps doesn't mean we get class swaps, or BiS gear in the CM. Especially the class swaps. They couldn't give us faction swaps because the disruption to story lines was too great. Class swaps wouldn't be ANY easier. We won't get them because of actual mechanical restrictions. BiS gear wouldn't hit the CM because that's just a bad idea as obtaining the BiS gear is the PvE end game, and you don't want people to skip that.

Pushing the line for the better doesn't mean you have to push it ad nauseum until you break the system.


I actually only do PvP. I don't see the problem. The FotM problem is only one of perception. Every class has good matchups and bad ones. If a bad matchup gets a buff, people come on the forums crying about FotM, because what often happens is that when ANY class gets a buff, it becomes over-represented as a lot of people want to try it out.

BUT, that's a debate for the PvP forums. Like you said, for the other types of gameplay, the negative impact is small, if existent at all.

Though some might try and abuse it, AC swaps would really be a huge QoL improvement for those players that have come to regret a decision made quite early in a character's life, allowing them to change that decision without having to abandon all progress made so far. It also serves those who like to experiment or sample, but lack the time or patience to level a whole stable of toons. I think the potential benefits greatly outweigh the potential negatives.

Please show me two classes (AC's) that actually share a tree. I'm not aware of any.

Powertech and mercenary may each have a tree with the same name and some of the same skills within that tree may even have the same name. Many of the skills with the same name function differently for each class (AC) and many are in different locations within their respective trees. In short, those trees are NOT identical and therefore NOT a shared tree.