Ideas to balance the overpowerd assassins, and madness sorcerers.

Don't get dark embrace.

Lightning Burns procs from Creeping Terror (sin) Lightning Strike (sorc) not Crushing Darkness

Ok thanks.. misread tool tip

Thrash > maul if you're not deception. They do roughly similar damage. Yes maul means you won't top out on force, but using maul gains you nothings, you might as well top out on force.

What spec has lockout extension besides lightning? I hardly think that's worth mentioning.

Oh no if your FL gets interrupted your only options are shock, stun, slow, KB, self heal, bubble, affliction, CT, LS if you have 3 stacks and CD isn't up for another 7+ seconds (you never ever cast CD), ww, cleanse, extricate... but I'm sure all of those abilities will either be on CD or not useful at the time, especially since afflictioning someone else (if your primary target's affliction isn't expired or about to expire of course) costs force and shouldn't be used right? -_-. Madness has it really rough man.

Yes, but you should just CT or assassinate with a lucky early proc before CD lol, as its functional CD is time in between procs, not when you actually use it (oh wait I forgot you gotta go for that l33t burst that people play madness for).

Yeah don't take force regen talent. Get CDR talent in deception, 5/2/39.

Most of those cost force and as you should know managing force is the key to playing madness. You dont waste force particularly on dots without deathmarks up. FL is your force management ability. Its a channel. Hits for hardly anything outside Reckless or without boost on your CT target. So yes if you let a madness sorc free cast and dont interupt his FL then hes going to be able to manage his force.

Interrupt FL and keep him moving. He'll run out of force fast.

Funny thing is there are plenty of tips in this thread to deal with madness sorc/sin. Still you won't bother using any of them you'll just qq and refuse to get better.

Madness force management is tight, buts its not that tight.

The whole point of my post is that getting the three stacks required for CD is ludicrously easy and nearly impossible to stop. You should be required to finish the channel entirely, or at the very least the stacks should expire rapidly.

You said that Madness sorcs weren't fine in ranked warzones a few pages ago. But that's irrelevant because Ranked WZs don't exist anymore and the reason Madness got its buffs had NOTHING to do with ranked warzones, bringing up Madness sorcs' performance in ranked WZ's was something you did, and something that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand because ranked warzones are not relevant to class balance at all anymore.

Good, then you can stop talking about how madness has no on demand burst in your posts and use that as an excuse for why the buffs were valid because it isn't supposed to have any.

Now that we agree on this, we can hopefully never mention Madness spec and its burst, because its non-existent.

Lol the hybrid has much higher burst potential than madness, although being a more AoE oriented spec. I wonder though, as such a sorc expert what do you use for burst with that hybrid. Force Lightning and Lightning strike?

Because we were talking about burst and sorcs? Link between topics? And seeing how madness has none, that leaves us with Full Lightning, which has considerable single target burst with the TB auto-crit but is dam easy to screw over and the hybrid which is as "bursty" as sorcs get if they're not specced full lightning.

Nothing got resolved lol, go read PTS notes -__- if anything sorcs get an optional extra 2-3% mitigation as well as UP's GCD removed along with other less important stuff. Nothing of the passage you quoted has been "resolved", not that it needs to, because Ranked strats and team comps aren't the issue at hand. Much resolving such wow, you totally have a clue what you're talking about

You are deluding yourself.

I played 10-15 group ranked games as madness sorc last night and have hundreds of games of group ranked experience with the spec during S1- I'm not exactly personally biased against it. I say they're OP because I care about balance and they're OP. I think I am allowed to speak as to how easy and relatively uncounterable the spec is if I take 600k damage in one round with constant hard stuns and still do top dmg with it. The only way your force is really going to get ****ed up within the span of a 4s round is if the other team completely rides your dick and is constantly interrupting and ccing you during your FL like it's their job... in which case, they deserve to reap what they have sown via your DPS being significantly lowered. You are just whining that the other team can take steps to lower madness's ridiculous output. L2P.