Ideas to balance the overpowerd assassins, and madness sorcerers.

so tab dotting isnt fluff? how isnt it? its not gonna kill anyone (unless the person isnt being healed and is at 5% health). you can see a damage fluffer by looking at their overall kills compared to they killing blows. fluffers tend to have an insane amount of kills (for their team average) and single digit KBs. the non fluffers have an average overall total (again compared to the team average) and double digit kills. at least thats they way it is for me and my sorc friends.

Yes, anyone who hits tab dot tab dot tab dot is doing fluff damage. However, no sorc worth a grain of salt is doing that. ****, if the spec could only put out fluff damage, you wouldn't see the QQ that you're seeing. Lethality operatives are a great example of a spec that is only capable of putting out fluff damage in PvP. Their survivability is a joke and yet they are "forced" to go into 4m range to proc shiv's TA just to cull. The spec is basically restricted to DOT, pew pew and nade spam and that's why nobody ever *****es about it. Madness sorcs and madness assassins aren't built that way. They both are capable of putting out extreme single target DPS.

Sorc, sin, marauder, jugg and probably snipers are better than PT in competitive scene. They either out damage PT in competitive game play or have better survivability and/or utility. Pyro PT only outperforms some of them in regular WZs with little competition and that's about it. They are not as bad as ops dps, but defiantly not as good as some of the much more competitive specs, and the reason is surivability, not damage.

Juggs hit like we noodle, but in WZs with not much healers and solo que they are kings. If things get competitive, both madness specs outperform pyro with a significant margin as dot specs, in both damage and survivability. As burst, both dec sin and carnage marauder are stronger burst specs, and both have significantly better survivability.

Ya, pyro is better than some of these in non-competitive WZs. But what value does that have?

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TBH, if it solo between Pyro and veng it will boil down to ED. Pyro is stronger dps, has much better control. Jugg will be lucky if you land one master strike. But as pyro you need to burn through close to 150K HP without dying, between veng jugg all DCDs. It is not possible. You can pre-long and push it down to the wire, but win, veng has too much DCDs.

Wooooow, relax bro, it's not even half that amount. ED with a 20% crit chance will heal for around 24k, and that's assuming the Pyro wastes all 10 stacks. But if he hits Hydraulics and runs he won't burn even burn through all of them. Only way he can burn through all of them is if the dots from TD, IM, and CGC are all ticking, or if he keeps attacking, and then it's his own fault. Adding that to the ~32k hp a properly geared jug will have that's 56k.

Even with the glitch Endure Pain had (which might have been fixed, I'm not sure) where it would heal for a net 3-4k HP, that's still 59-60k HP, and you're not obliged to burn through it all. That's very far from 150k, even when you factor in the 25% DR from Saber war and the 15% DR from Endure Pain and reflect that barely reflects 2 GCD worth of damage that's still far from 150k. But I do agree with you that it boils down to what the PT decides to do when the jug pops ED.

I wouldn't say pyro has better control than a jugg, but he has more stuns. it's not like he wants the jugg closer so a pull is useless. the stuns are somewhat nullified by middle tree immunities, and the jugg can almost always push him away to reset the immunity.

This is what happened with 2.0 expansion, our instant whirlwind got nerfed and other classes all got better defence and DPS... While we may not have "lost" too much DPS... The increased DPS abilities in others and cc nerfing... Made us more squishy and required us to kite and run more... So basically we got gimped... If we wanted to stay alive because of the increased damage we were taking... We had to move a lot more... Reducing our DPS output...
Really the Madness Spec Sorc became an auxiliary role... Good for hit and runs... But overall DPS output dropped
I switched to Healz after that so I could be more help to my team...
Now that the Sorc is back to a more lvl playing field on DPS I have switched back... Still wish they'd get rid of the Force Bubble and give us instant whirlwind again...


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Stuns used right after a leap are, but well timed ones can still save you from ravage's last tick which consist of 50% of the ability's dmg. It's not like every ravage is protected by Unstoppable too.

not to mention you can just pop hydraulic overrides and lol your way to the bank while he attempts to ravage root you