Ideas to balance the overpowerd assassins, and madness sorcerers.

this just reminds me of how badly I owned lowbies (10-50) on my scrapper, and I'm so frikkin bad with that @ 55, I just volunteer to stealth guard every time. lol

I somewhat disagree with that, A decent Pyro will not be completely outmatched by a Jugg of equal skill, far from it actually. ED alone is far from being enough to compensate for the serious difference in DMG output. Vengeance in comparison to other DPS warrior specs except Smash falls behind in terms of damage. Annihilation and Carnage can both pull better numbers single target wise despite the fact that Marauders are a tricker class to 1v1 with, because it takes more thinking than "Lolz I are heal to full".

To get back to the point though, Kolto Overload is a good 8 second during which the PT has barely any chances to die when fighting a Juggernaut. The Jugg would have to get back to back crits on single hit hard hitters like Impale or Vicious Throw or follow up with a crit of those after a third ravage tick crit. A Vengeance jug CANNOT kill a Pyro during Kolto unless he gets very lucky with crits. Let's not forget energy shield and the fact that it sends 7k dmg total back to the attacker for the whole duration, or chaff flare...

Let's not forget the fact that a Pyro can actually kite Vengeance jug since the slow attached to flame burst is pretty dam good and you have it up almost all the time. I think we both remember the long *** thread that turned into an argument of whether PT were ranged or not, but don't tell me that a Pyro can't stay out of a Jugg's range without too much trouble and has to be at 4m all the time (only rocket punch requires that, and we both know its CD) because that will be laughable.

I'm not saying Pyro can easily wreck a jug dps spec, but the odds are dam good considering the damage output and the range advantage they have. So no, PT's (assuming Pyro, cuz who even plays AP anymore ><) are NOT completely outmatched in 1v1's by Juggernauts, at all.

Lol better damage output. No pyro doesn't have a better output versusu a juggernaut because the pyro can't use thermal det against juggernaut thinks to reflect, which means I lost almost half my burst.

The juggernaut can negate Pyro's explosive fuel window with saber ward, and since jugs get a lovely 100% defense for the first 2 seconds they can easily guarantee that the Pyro loses the first railshot of the EF window, if not the second.

Adrenaline rush? Yeah it gives me eight seconds, and at the end of those eight seconds the pyro dies pretty much instantly. Plus Adrenaline rush does not match the effectiveness of ED or enure.

And lets not forget that juggernauts have significantly higher target control than pyro does in addition to have higher base damage reduction than pyro.

PT Pyro vs veng pretty much boils down to how well the pyro can abuse his ranged advantage. Face tanking will send him back to the factory.

LOL... what?!

I may go along with the damage, but survivability

i understand that people are not pleased with madness damage output and before i go any further i dont really play madness (apart from doing the dailies on my sorc). i primarily play deception or concealment on my op. but anyways, its not necessarily the damage they are putting out (most of it is fluff anyhow. most sorcs tab dot affliction so they arent really doing anything special. they were able to do this before the buff and still topped the leader boards) but its the sheer amount of them in a group in any given warzone. with that many people dotting the team up it does feel OP at times but you gotta remember, "x" amount of juggs feels the same way, "x" amount of deception sins feel the same way, hell even "x" amount of arsenal mercs feel the same way. before anyone cries nerf next time, take the time to see exactly how many madness spec are in one match. one madness spec isnt gonna tilt the warzone in one teams favor (unless the player is actually that good).

Any of the classes with better damage output die much faster. Pyro has great damage to survivability.

Juggs hit like wet fish compared.

I'm curious about the marauder's carnage buffs they gonna implement in 2.10

Neither of the madness specs can be considered as doing "fluff" damage in the current meta.