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The uncleansable DoTs

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
The uncleansable DoTs

Shevaresh's Avatar


Shevaresh
08.16.2014 , 03:58 PM | #1
In an effort to make Assassins and Sorcerers Madness spec more viable, the devs has experimented with trying to make their DoTs unable to be cleansed. This was to be a experiment that would eventually be evaluated and either made the baseline for DoTs or scrapped, but since we have had no update about it yet, and the 2.10 notes do not contain anything about it yet, it would be good with some debate about how people percieve this change?

Granted that having only Assassins/Sorcerers DoTs uncleansable would be somewhat odd, how do people feel about having damage-over-time effects made uncleansable for all classes? Or just for the Assassins/Sorcerers? Or for none of the classes at all?

My personal view would be that its a "double-edged" blade atm. Not being able to cleanse those DoTs does remove something from the classes that can cleanse DoTs, but at the same time being able to remove them makes most encounters with DoT-classes rather trivial. Mostly I think that its perhaps an issue is that perticulary the Assassin DoTs seems to be somewhat overtuned damage-wise, which combined with them being uncleansable makes Assassins rather overtuned at the moment. Which does make those uncleansable DoTs seem rather over-powered and uncountable, but at the same time encounters with e.g. Lethality snipers when you can just cleanse their DoTs and thereby negate most of the "Cull" damage is definately on the other side of the spectrum. My worries, in short, is that with all DoTs being uncleansable, their damage would have to be amazingly fine-tuned to not be either under- or overpowering, whereas all being cleansable makes for a significant disadvantage when faced with people who cleanses. Second part is a matter of being countered by "skill" though, which, afterall, is a significant part of the fun of PvP, imo (win or lose )

But what do you all think? Is uncleansable DoTs a good or bad thing, should it be for all or just some? Would be nice with a good debate about it

Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
08.16.2014 , 06:51 PM | #2
As a Sorc that plays both Madness and Corruption I hate it. To be honest, it really just lowers the skill cap.

Being totally unable to react to dots is stupid. Some classes SHOULD be able to counter/dispel dot damage. Similarly to how you can kite/root to mitigate melee damage. Different forms of damage SHOULD have active counters.
"Who I am is not important, my message is."

Daraeill's Avatar


Daraeill
08.18.2014 , 04:05 PM | #3
DCD's that remove harmful effects also do the same for DOT's
~Dar'kaen~

Brittaany_Banks's Avatar


Brittaany_Banks
08.19.2014 , 03:36 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Shevaresh View Post
In an effort to make Assassins and Sorcerers Madness spec more viable, the devs has experimented with trying to make their DoTs unable to be cleansed. This was to be a experiment that would eventually be evaluated and either made the baseline for DoTs or scrapped, but since we have had no update about it yet, and the 2.10 notes do not contain anything about it yet, it would be good with some debate about how people percieve this change?

Granted that having only Assassins/Sorcerers DoTs uncleansable would be somewhat odd, how do people feel about having damage-over-time effects made uncleansable for all classes? Or just for the Assassins/Sorcerers? Or for none of the classes at all?

My personal view would be that its a "double-edged" blade atm. Not being able to cleanse those DoTs does remove something from the classes that can cleanse DoTs, but at the same time being able to remove them makes most encounters with DoT-classes rather trivial. Mostly I think that its perhaps an issue is that perticulary the Assassin DoTs seems to be somewhat overtuned damage-wise, which combined with them being uncleansable makes Assassins rather overtuned at the moment. Which does make those uncleansable DoTs seem rather over-powered and uncountable, but at the same time encounters with e.g. Lethality snipers when you can just cleanse their DoTs and thereby negate most of the "Cull" damage is definately on the other side of the spectrum. My worries, in short, is that with all DoTs being uncleansable, their damage would have to be amazingly fine-tuned to not be either under- or overpowering, whereas all being cleansable makes for a significant disadvantage when faced with people who cleanses. Second part is a matter of being countered by "skill" though, which, afterall, is a significant part of the fun of PvP, imo (win or lose )

But what do you all think? Is uncleansable DoTs a good or bad thing, should it be for all or just some? Would be nice with a good debate about it
I'll go along with being able to heal the cleansable DoTs but only by a healer that is spec'd into added DoT removal. Madness/Balance spec'd sages have to spend 2 points to achieve the uncleansable DoTs in the 6th tier of the skill tree so it should cost NO LESS than that for it to be removed.
I don't care who you are. I don't care if you are male, or female, black, or white, gay, or straight, religious, or non-religious, old or young. I care about 3 things. Can you tank properly? Can you DPS properly? Can you heal properly?
#GamerGate

Vildiil's Avatar


Vildiil
08.20.2014 , 06:31 AM | #5
They did DoT protection bad for Sorc/Sin, they should have copied a WoW style penalty for removing key dots like Unstable Affliction. Give Creeping Terror or something a penalty for removing it to the cleanser. It'll once again return counter play and force the person dispelling to make a decision if its currently worth removing that dot or not.
Ja'xo - <Lethal Dose Fifty>

Varlak's Avatar


Varlak
08.20.2014 , 10:23 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Xeraz View Post
As a Sorc that plays both Madness and Corruption I hate it. To be honest, it really just lowers the skill cap.

Being totally unable to react to dots is stupid. Some classes SHOULD be able to counter/dispel dot damage. Similarly to how you can kite/root to mitigate melee damage. Different forms of damage SHOULD have active counters.
kiting a melee and beeing able to cleanse are 2 totaly different things. First many dots come from melee.

Kiting to avoie beeing hit so you take no damage make sense.

Failing at avoiding getting hit by a DoT then beeing able to simply cure it sound like it take more skill cap to you ?

if you get hit by any direct damage ability you have no way to reverse the process outside of healing while you can just cleanse DoTs without any penalty make little sense.

Maybe a system like in WoW were you hit a little DD when you cleanse a DoT so you must make a decision were it worth ir ot not to cure a DoT and not just blindly cure them all making DoT class useless.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
08.20.2014 , 08:17 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Shevaresh View Post
But what do you all think? Is uncleansable DoTs a good or bad thing, should it be for all or just some? Would be nice with a good debate about it
Wrong question, IMO. The question should be: Is cleanse a good or bad thing?

Cleanse itself is stupidly overpowered against DoT specs. Direct damage specs have no similar counter. I would be all for Madness/Balance DoTs being cleanse-able but only if the power is no longer able to shut down a DoT spec.
Alana-Balance Sage, Alan-Medic Commando, Rickta-Kinetic Shadow

And about 20+ other level 60s - Altoholism is a terrible disease

Ramtar's Avatar


Ramtar
08.22.2014 , 07:43 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Wrong question, IMO. The question should be: Is cleanse a good or bad thing?

Cleanse itself is stupidly overpowered against DoT specs. Direct damage specs have no similar counter. I would be all for Madness/Balance DoTs being cleanse-able but only if the power is no longer able to shut down a DoT spec.
it's called balancing. Direct damage specs can be counter by Armor Rating, Defense Chance and range in melee cases. What would you rather have: Cleanse or a nerf to DoTs?
Level 55s+: Sentinel, Guardian, Juggernaut, Gunslinger, Sorcerer

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
08.22.2014 , 08:09 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramtar View Post
it's called balancing. Direct damage specs can be counter by Armor Rating, Defense Chance and range in melee cases. What would you rather have: Cleanse or a nerf to DoTs?
So what would you do in the case of Force in Balance then? Ignores armor, can't be dodged, 30m range.

GL with that.
Kwerty, Level 60 Vanguard on The Harbinger
Vanguard DPS Guide | Powertech DPS Guide

Shevaresh's Avatar


Shevaresh
08.23.2014 , 06:50 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Wrong question, IMO. The question should be: Is cleanse a good or bad thing?

Cleanse itself is stupidly overpowered against DoT specs. Direct damage specs have no similar counter. I would be all for Madness/Balance DoTs being cleanse-able but only if the power is no longer able to shut down a DoT spec.
Well perhaps, but considering that cleansing is stable element of healing in PvE, being featured as a nescessary component for many encounters, it would be rather difficult to remove cleansing all together without just "dumbing down" the game.

As for direct damage, I disagree that there isn't a counter to that. I'd say that there are in fact loads of counters to such abillities whether they're delivered instantly or channeled. LoS'ing/Kiting/Physics(e.g. Push/knockbacks etc) are just some of the way direct damage abillities can be avoided, as well as various temporary immunities/damage reductions. DoT effects outlast such counters to direct damage, if not cleansed, giving that type of damage a relative advantage over direct damage (based on circumstance, naturally)

But it does seem to become a "hit-or-miss" issue where DoTs are either too simple to counter or too hard, while at the same time also becomming a problem of only some classes being able to counter them at all. The idea of a "backlash" or some form of significant cost to cleanse them, would be an interesting way to go about it, I feel though. Would encourage a more active approach to the issue of countering DoTs, where the one cleansing has to weight in "pro's and con's" of doing so, rather than just acting with a "knee-jerk reaction".