why is the SWTOR community so against "pay to win"

I think Cartel Market works perfect as it is. Player who doesnt spend CC can be just as powerful as player who does; later just looks gorgeous besides being powerful.

Also some work-skipping items like XP boosts are avilabe there, tough they are also avilabe as quest rewards. I am absolutely against P2W but absolutely for Pay for Cosmetics.

Mobile Game Clash of Clans is perfect example of P2W that has failed. There to play on top line you need to use hundreds of dollars per month. If same system hitted swtor I could only quit because I can't afford hundreds of dollard per month.

Yea, but it wouldn't be "kept in control", the temptation is too strong... it would just creep and creep until the old game was gone.

P2W is not natural for an MMO.
It's the equivalent of using God mode in a single player game. Yeah, it's fun to completely destroy your enemies without them being able to so much as scratch you, but for how long and at what cost?

I don't think you fully realize the repercussions of what you're suggesting.

- Crafting would be dead. Why go to the trouble of re-ing, crafting and trying to sell an item that is hard and costly to make when someone else would be able to just buy it and resell it on the GTN making the same (if not more) amount of credits?

- Running operations would also die out. Operations are fun but after a few runs, once you've learned the tactics and downed the bosses a few times, they become unbearably repetitive. What would be the point in trying to get the gear when you could buy it for CC or from the GTN?

- The effects of P2W would ripple out of the game's economy. People are less willing to try out a game that's notoriously P2W (see the hundreds of "F2P" games out there that are not really F2P because in order to be competitive you need to spend massive amounts of money). Others would leave because they'd see no reason in trying hard to get something others can simply buy with money.

As someone else already mentioned, the whole point of a game is that no matter how much money you have in real life, in the game you're only as good as your skill and gear. The only thing that should count in a game is that you understand how to play and how to gear your characters. Anything more than fluffy vanity items that only enhance the way your character looks, would cause a severe unbalance in the game's economy and its general standing in the MMO community.

As for color crystals, the one and only reason why the CM crystals have not completely destroyed Artifice is because the colors offered for direct purchase or through cartel packs are not the same colors as the ones offered by Artifice.

Theoretically you could do that, but you'd need more than 10 crates to get geared up. Aside from the high cost in rl currency, the problem there is also that if more people where to try this, the values of crates would drop as the supply would increase too much.

Anything that depends on sales to players is not a reliable source of income. It only works if a relatively small amount of people do this, just like crafting. The control mechanism is of course that because of prices dropping the market will be flooded with CM items which will devaluate as well and in the end people will stop buying crates or packs because there is no point to it anymore. That would be bad for the game again.

Aside from that I think P2Win is not desirable in a game like this. I think that if people were to take the time to figure out how a couple of things work in this game, they would be surprised at what they can achieve without resorting to pulling their wallet. In the end it's not a lot of work to get geared up at level 55 or before but as they say knowledge is power.

Someone else already said it, this game doesn't need gear to be buyable via the CM and I agree. Aside from it being undesirable because of the effects of P2W, I find it difficult to think of a good reason to want this. Even a player with little time can get geared up. It's about knowing how to without having to do anything crazy or very time consuming.

does affect me

I want a Bantha (for example) yet there is no quest line I can partake in to EARN ONE
There is no boss I can kill for the chance at a rare drop
The ONLY way is to buy cartel packs with real money or reward someone on GTN who used real money to obtain (P2W)

My gaming experience has been diminished because of it
P2W has robbed me of a in game experience I should be able to experience and value for the value of my subscription and time alone.

Cant say it any more straight forward then that to make it clear
If you still fail to understand why Im against it
well that your issue then as its been explained twice now

You probably don't know LoL

Because this game does not need it? IMO the pay to win systems that are in place in other games such as STO for example are demoralzing to the average player because in that game if you actually want to be on top form you will have to spend money it is as simple as that.

This game has managed to stay clear of that and in my mind it is better for it. I would like to ask you a question though OP, you said that pay to win in the traditional sense is to bypass work in order to get something you would usually have to grind for. So, my question to you is, where or how do you draw a line in the sand?

I mean if we take that logic than to you having full dread master gear on the CM would be a good thing? Or maybe it is full ranked gear? Either way, please tell me how this is somehow a good thing because I honestly do not see it. Besides, it also creates this mentality that you can only be good if you spend money and will show elitism to the extreme.

EDIT: By the way it is not necessarily natural for an MMO to have a P2W feature. I mean look at WoW, yes they have a token for an instant 90 but they do not sell gear for gold. So how is natural?

So again I think the notion that it would not be harmful is disingenuous because once you start the flood gates open and more and more things that are actually earned will be made redundant and when that happens good bye to progression and progression PVP.

The only kind of situation in which I would accept such an approach - paying real money for top gear - would be if there was 0 needed interactions with other players.

No PvP, no Ops, no anything of that kind, where that gear would count. Why? Because it'd be unfair to those that would prefer not to spend as much in money, but wouldn't mind spending as much in time. I for one can't afford to spend real money to get my gear at top lvl. I work with the few CC I get for subbing, and atm I'm quite satisfied tbh. But of course, even if I run Ops and PvP, I'm not top gear. At all. Still, I enjoy working over it on my free time, running an Op here and there with friends and such, mostly SMs. PvPing with friends aswell. That's my idea of fun.

If I was to meet a player in full top gear right after reaching 55 - and I don't mean that he sent it using Legacy Gear, that's perfectly legit to me - I'd feel really bad. Like, useless. Because my inability to invest more in the game would make me useless for my team of friends, in the game.
Why sticking to my tank in mostly 162-168 when they could just take that player in full 186 augmented and optimized and teach him the basics?
Why having my friends team with my Sorc in mostly Obroan gear, not optimized and without augments, when they could take the other one in full Brutalizer augmented and optimized?
This is the real issue. Want interaction? We all have to start on an even field... Otherwise it's unfair. My 2 cents.

You haven't noticed ? It's simple : Those with the most RL money will also dominate the game.

Yeah veteran rewards were instituted by EQ1, think of them like legacy abilities that had different cooldown times:
First Year: Lesson of the Devoted - Gain double experience for 30 minutes. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Second Year: Infusion of the Faithful - Maximum resistances and stats and a faster run speed for 15 minutes. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Third Year: Chaotic Jester - You can summon a Bristlebane Halfling that lasts for 15 minutes. He randomly casts spells that can either benefit or penalize. He constantly cracks annoying jokes too!

Fourth Year: Expedient Recover - All of your corpses can be summoned and you will be given 100% of the lost experience back as part of the resurrection unless they are too old. Refreshes once per week.

Fifth Year: Steadfast Servant - Summon a NPC that will cast healing spells on you and any near players for 30 minutes. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Sixth Year: Staunch Recovery - Fully healed with health, mana, and endurance. Refreshes every 3 days.

Seventh Year: Intensity of the Resolute - Increases your melee abilities, spells, and heals for 1 minute. Refreshes every 4 hours.

Eigth Year: Throne of Heroes - Teleport to the Guild Lobby. Refreshes every 3 days.

Ninth Year: Armor of Experience - A four layered protection from 100% to 25%, each layer absorbing 10 hits until it moves to the next layer. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Tenth Year: Summon Resupply Agent - A Merchant is summoned to your side who will sell supplies and buy your loot off you. He remains up for 10 minutes or until you get rid of him. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Eleventh Year: Summon Clockwork Banker - A Banker is summoned to your side.

Twelvth Year: Summon Permutation Peddler - A Augmentation Distiller Vendor is summoned to your side. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Thirteenth Year: Summon Tribute Master - A Tribute Master is summoned to your side. Refreshes every 20 hours.

Fourteenth Year: Blessing of the Devoted - A passive ability which reduces the time required between uses of your Veteran's Rewards by 25%.