why is the SWTOR community so against "pay to win"

For quite some time most of the desirable speeders were 600CC to unlock, and most sets at least 240, if not 600CC as well. It's not cheap to unlock all of your favorite sets in collections, and those who unlock them all pump quite a bit of money into the game. They definitely are not losing money on the CM from this, nor are they losing money from it on the whole.

As to P2W, a game where you don't need to play to gain becomes pointless. If the best armor--as in set pieces and top tier armorings, items like the Corruptor Blade, rare mounts, etc, were a guarantee via the cash shop the game would simply become boring. The mind isn't stimulated or satisfied by easily gotten goods, not for most anyway. Beyond that, players like knowing that they started at the same place as all other players and whatever top tier items they have they have earned through the same chances as any other players have available and managed to succeed through effort.

I'm against it because it will drive intelligent players away from the game, and I'll no longer be able to enjoy group content. The game would become solo only for people not interested in throwing money away.

Look if more active sub is required, then why not introduce veteran rewards.
That is a effective way to sell more Cartel Coins and keep people subbed, those who drop to F2P usually don't raid anymore. But give then incentive to sub cause of selfishe reasons.

And all others a reason to keep paying even on holiday times, usually works well.
Allowing people to buy with cartel coins missing months or years also evens the playing ground.
Sadly veteran rewards downfall, is a lot of work and planning required years ahead.

And also allowing the right Overpowered/Stimulating bonus to appear in intervals.
But that is also the same mindset of FOTM and P2W games.
Indulge in that first, before introducing P2W scenario that cannot be turned back once it starts.
Sorry that is reality once people leave P2W around 90% never ever come back!
Cause it is pointless to play catch up when you can drop that same amount of money into new P2W games.
And become king for 6 months.

it doesn't need to get outrageous, the examples people are giving for pay to win are extreme. so long as we keep it in control some level of pay to win probably wouldn't be too bad.

i'm not suggesting having level 55 gear purchasable at level 1 or anything, that is too far.

i am suggesting that the CM should offer gear equivalent to the best gear available through gameplay.

i certainly don't want the CM gear to be superior to normal gear, just equal to. the only advantage of paying money is that it woulds be easier and a bit earlier.

with swtor, players are not usually fighting other players, and when they are they are bolstered to a generic level usually.

I already consider this game P2W to be honest.
TO MUCH is allowed to be bought by cartel coins rather then EARNED IN GAME as it should be

People like to blah blah blah about cosmetics stuff but that cosmetic stuff IS DESIRED and should be earnable in game rather then buying with Cartel Coins or even off GTN.

But I will say straight up

The day the game starts doing stuff like the OP wants is the day I close down my subscription for good.

No desire to play with those types

Its already bad enough with the game being so easy mode and dumbed down that fresh 55s have no clue how to play their characters because they been spoon fed everything.

Once they dumb it down so badly that bad players can buy everything
Well I know I dont want to play with those types and im sure I'm far far far from alone in that.

The current model is actually working for TOR so I see no reason to open the cartel shop up even more and ultimately dumb down the game even more.

Game breaker issue for me.

i don't know what veteran rewards are, but i assume you mean some kind of reward for subs that are subscribed for a longer period of time. that would certainly keep people from just subbing for 2 months to get the bonuses for expansions like the GSH nar shaddaa house.

I'm not against pay to win, just like I'm not particularly for it either. I couldnt care less either way.

If I were to make an assumption, I would assume that most dont care one way or another either, unless they participate in direct competitive play, which is usually a minority of the playerbase. Most casual players, IMO, do not care what others do and how they play. They only care about their own playing experience.

Now, that said, I would not care for a system that REQUIRES you to pay extra to advance past a certain point where one would expect that no such gate should exist, something like paying to move past level X, or paying to have the ability to earn credits in game. That is probably going to far, and would likely effect EVERYONE.

I think for most folks that speak against pay to win it is to stand against this kind of practice. A very small group of folks, IMO, stand against any form of pay to win, no matter how small....

I have seen folks call SWTOR pay to win because they require you to pay a sub to remove yourself from preferred status and the locks that are part of that status....to me that was a really silly contention to make.

If that is the case, ALL GAMES ARE PAY TO WIN THAT REQUIRE A SUB TO PLAY.

But why do you want this? What problem are you trying to solve? What's wrong with having to go to the GTN, or craft it yourself, or use planetary commendations?

This is the only part of your post that I had trouble comprehending. Namely, I'm having trouble figuring out why you would obsess over how someone else gets something that doesn't affect you in the slightest manner.

A level 55 weapon on the market - yes, that affects you, because they buy it and then barely know which end the pew pew or the shimmery cutty-thing comes out of, and that has the potential to get you killed when, for example, Malgus is preparing to compress you into Zabrak Patties during a flashpoint. No one can really argue that.

But getting upset because someone is wearing a garment that confers no greater advantage than the one they swapped it out for? That the only difference is style, cut, and appearance? A Formal Bermuda Shorts gets discarded for Exar Kun's Codpiece? That's something worth freaking out over? Seriously?

I'm not trying to be flip here - I'm genuinely baffled by this. If you want to waste your time fretting over something that trivial and pointless, be my guest, but don't expect a whole lot of understanding or sympathy.