You are correct if you include the blue materials. I specified just the purples.

Oops. Now I feel silly

I forgot some of those were blue materials.

I'm very tempted to remind OP about his stance on legacy storage costs and the whole what goes around, comes around and maybe now you will be more sympathetic to concerns people made about legacy storage costs.

but we are on the same side on this issue. so even though its difficult, I'm going to let bigones be bigones.

crafting costs are over the top. something needs to be change whether its the amount of materials required to make dark projects, or which mats are necessary, or even how many dark projects are needed to craft inscriptions, but as it stands? I don't even want to try.

people do grinds when they can see end in sight. when they can see the progress, real progress. endless grinds don't work in western gaming because what the hell is the point? spend all that time grinding when you could be, I don't know enjoying yourself? why?

and pvp is not the issue here. the issue here is that crafting path is NOT VIABLE.

I'm very tempted to remind OP about his stance on legacy storage costs and the whole what goes around, comes around and maybe now you will be more sympathetic to concerns people made about legacy storage costs.

 

but we are on the same side on this issue. so even though its difficult, I'm going to let bigones be bigones.

 

crafting costs are over the top. something needs to be change whether its the amount of materials required to make dark projects, or which mats are necessary, or even how many dark projects are needed to craft inscriptions, but as it stands? I don't even want to try.

 

people do grinds when they can see end in sight. when they can see the progress, real progress. endless grinds don't work in western gaming because what the hell is the point? spend all that time grinding when you could be, I don't know enjoying yourself? why?

 

and pvp is not the issue here. the issue here is that crafting path is NOT VIABLE.

I'm pleased to see that you're able to restrain yourself from snarking at people who actually agree with you.

Responses in red. And of course, this still presumes 8 people are running a 16-man ops in 45 minutes.

And it's those very numbers that make me go "W'T'F is BW thinking."

I get it's a interesting goal to go after but the massive amount of time needed across an entire guild is simply staggering.

And it's those very numbers that make me go "W'T'F is BW thinking."

I get it's a interesting goal to go after but the massive amount of time needed across an entire guild is simply staggering.

Which is what makes it an achievement worth pursuing, for some people.

There will be a race to be World First and Server First to fully unlock a flagship.

I expect we will see World First full flagship unlock before the release of 3.0.

And what will that say about the guilds who do it? Perhaps it says "this guild that can do anything it sets its mind to." Some people will want to join a guild like that. Others may not. So it's a useful thing to know.

Which is what makes it an achievement worth pursuing, for some people.

 

There will be a race to be World First and Server First to fully unlock a flagship.

I expect we will see World First full flagship unlock before the release of 3.0.

 

And what will that say about the guilds who do it? Perhaps it says "this guild that can do anything it sets its mind to." Some people will want to join a guild like that. Others may not. So it's a useful thing to know.

^this guy gets it...

PS. There is no where in the PTS notes that states drop rates wouldn't be adjusted. Hence why all the MathyMath based on the current system is pointless. Conversely, there was a blurb about FPs/OPs drops being adjusted and I highly doubt any PTS players checked drop rates on EV/KP/Etc. I also doubt that BW, in its infinite wisdom, would not make that **** rain like Floyd Mayweather at a strip club.

So... I say again you guys are burstin' ur loads to quick.. Calm down, take a pill, run some Ops on the next PTS run, report back.

If I am wrong, I will eat me words and you guys can point and say I told you so, if it will make you feel better.

^this guy gets it...

 

PS. There is no where in the PTS notes that states drop rates wouldn't be adjusted. Hence why all the MathyMath based on the current system is pointless. Conversely, there was a blurb about FPs/OPs drops being adjusted and I highly doubt any PTS players checked drop rates on EV/KP/Etc. I also doubt that BW, in its infinite wisdom, would not make that **** rain like Floyd Mayweather at a strip club.

 

So... I say again you guys are burstin' ur loads to quick.. Calm down, take a pill, run some Ops on the next PTS run, report back.

 

If I am wrong, I will eat me words and you guys can point and say I told you so, if it will make you feel better.

If they adjusted the KP/EV drops to a degree to make the crafting path viable, then I'll modify the strength of my complaints about that path accordingly to the size of the increased drop rate.

If they adjusted the KP/EV drops to a degree to make the crafting path viable, then I'll modify the strength of my complaints about that path accordingly to the size of the increased drop rate.

And I am willing to do the same if they are not.

It's just not in BW m.o. to drop EXACT specifics on how the system is going to work. It has so many layers that until the actual patch is released, it's pointless to jump to x conclusion.

And I am willing to do the same if they are not.

 

It's just not in BW m.o. to drop EXACT specifics on how the system is going to work. It has so many layers that until the actual patch is released, it's pointless to jump to x conclusion.

But, all we have to go on is what's in front of us. I really wish someone had taken the time to do a quick EV/KP on the PTS and seen what the drops were.

Which is what makes it an achievement worth pursuing, for some people.

 

There will be a race to be World First and Server First to fully unlock a flagship.

I expect we will see World First full flagship unlock before the release of 3.0.

 

And what will that say about the guilds who do it?

It probably says their morons but who knows.

Perhaps it says "this guild that can do anything it sets its mind to." Some people will want to join a guild like that. Others may not. So it's a useful thing to know.

The more useful thing to know is the time involved to open the ship as well as it's accessory areas.

Guilds done by 3.0? Wont happen. They will quickly want to do more things than old ops week after week or killing some champions. Even the most dedicated get bored.

But, all we have to go on is what's in front of us. I really wish someone had taken the time to do a quick EV/KP on the PTS and seen what the drops were.

Indeed.

But ain't nobody got tyme fo dat. I need mah Stronkhuld./sarcasm

Guilds done by 3.0? Wont happen.

Care to make a wager on that?

To get a better perspective on what I'm talking about, this is how things are going to end up being done after 2.9 when it comes to farming mats for Dark Projects:

 

16man NiM EV: 8 ADCs, 2 RENs.

16man HM EV: 8 ADCs, 2 RENs.

16man SM EV: 8 BCAs, 2 SPPCs.

 

So, for doing 3 EV runs will net you 16 Alien Data Cubes, 4 Rakata Energy Nodules, 8 Biometric Crystal Alloys and 2 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells.

 

The rewards for doing all three modes of KP are the same as EV listed above. So, doing six runs of the relevant 50 OPs will net you 32 Alien Data Cubes, 8 Rakata Energy Nodes, 16 Biometric Crystal Alloys and 4 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells.

 

Now, at least 8 of your guildies will need to go do HM False Emperor for the Self-Perpetuating Power Cell that drops from the last boss. Because, otherwise, you're only going to get 4 SPPCs. Assuming you can get 8 people to slog through it and get the 2 SPPCs, you're now set.

 

A Dark Project requires 3 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells, 6 Alien Data Cubes, 6 Biometric Crystal Alloys, 3 Rakata Energy Nodes and a crapton of sub-55 green mats.

 

So, with six runs under your belt in the first week, assuming we have all the green mats for the Invasion Force itemm already, we can make...2 Dark Projects. Per week. Assuming you can get your Guildies to go do 3 runs of EV, and 3 runs of KP and 2 runs of HM False Emperor.

 

For two Dark Projects, per week. And you need 50 of those to make a single Framework. And you need 2-6 of those to open a single room. And there are 15 rooms to unlock.

 

Unless I did my math wrong, it'll take a guild...25 weeks to get one Framework by farming 50 Ops. And almost a year to get one room unlocked.

actually that is incorrect. You only need 1 Dark Project to purchase a framework. You need 50 encryptions to get 1 framework

actually that is incorrect. You only need 1 Dark Project to purchase a framework. You need 50 encryptions to get 1 framework

I wish!

Unless there has been a change to this I do believe it is 1 dark project to 1 encryption. Which translates to 50 dark projects for 1 framework.

Ok... so I don't get it. While I agree the pricing on Dark Project mats is nuts, why do people focus on the encryptions? At best Dark Projects are obviously meant to be a minor supplement to acquiring frameworks. There's not two sources for getting encryptions. There are at least three. The one most guilds will be acquiring is from guild rewards.

If your guild places in the top 10 for a planet, every character that contributed 35k points to the leaderboard during that conquest event will earn the guild reward. And part of that reward is an encryption of the player's choice. Any guild that places on a planet will probably have around 25+ active characters participating. Still going to be slow going since that means only 2 frameworks per month, but still far speedier than farming mats day in day out.

actually that is incorrect. You only need 1 Dark Project to purchase a framework. You need 50 encryptions to get 1 framework

Okay, you just blew my mind.

Since you posted, I went and looked and found this, though:

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swtor-guild-flagship-unlocking-guide-4.jpg

I believe you mistook the 'Encryption' cost for a 'Framework' cost.

It's a straight trade. One Dark Project for one Encryption.

I believe you mistook the 'Encryption' cost for a 'Framework' cost.

While we're on the subject, would you mind clarifying:

One per day will work out to be about one Framework per two months.

Eh? Where does this two months come from? Commanders can drop a completed framework directly.

Are you trying to say that killing a commander only has a 1.6% chance to drop a framework?

While we're on the subject, would you mind clarifying:

 

Eh? Where does this two months come from? Commanders can drop a completed framework directly.

 

Are you trying to say that killing a commander only has a 1.6% chance to drop a framework?

I'm disregarding the possibility of Frameworks dropping from Commanders until I can get a set percentage rate for its dropping. For all we know, 1.6% is overly generous.

I'm disregarding the possibility of Frameworks dropping from Commanders until I can get a set percentage rate for its dropping. For all we know, 1.6% is overly generous.

Fair enough.

There is no where in the PTS notes that states drop rates wouldn't be adjusted. Hence why all the MathyMath based on the current system is pointless.

Dear $deity in $astralplane... there is nowhere in the PTS notes a mention of me logging in and being awarded 500 million credits and 500 frameworks either. As a sane person I however do not take that as a reason to say it is going to happen.

If I am wrong, I will eat me words and you guys can point and say I told you so, if it will make you feel better.

You have been proven wrong based on already existing evidence. People ran the things on PTS already.

If your guild places in the top 10 for a planet, every character that contributed 35k points to the leaderboard during that conquest event will earn the guild reward. And part of that reward is an encryption of the player's choice. Any guild that places on a planet will probably have around 25+ active characters participating. Still going to be slow going since that means only 2 frameworks per month, but still far speedier than farming mats day in day out.

You are assuming hitting top10 will be a viable option for everyone. The problem is we really have no information on that, as it will heavily depend on how many planets will be in play regularly. On PTS it was 3, which I assume will be the minimum, the maximum was 15+? So that thats 30-150 (or so) spots. How many guilds do you think there are per server? How many of them do not put a regular 4-6 hours of playtime in every day?

There will be a race to be World First and Server First to fully unlock a flagship.

I expect we will see World First full flagship unlock before the release of 3.0.

There are ~19 weeks between 2.9 launch and Dec 31st, latest 3.0 should launch. Cost of capital ship unlocks in frameworks is 2,700, so 142 characters hitting their conquest target would be required per week. Yeah, definitely doable in a large guild, but dear $deity, the grind.

As a side note, we can also calculate the target points per character for small guilds wanting to hit top10 from that. 35,000 x 142 is 4,970,000, so if the number of planets in play on average does not exceed large guilds on the grind x 10, a 16 active person guild will need to grind 310,625 points per person per week. If not, no progress for you, owPvP and crafting, have fun.

To fix this mindless nonsensical grind, for Bioware, is very very easy though, and I'm really hoping they do so, since they only have to swap numbers around a bit. Best option right now IMO would be to lower the cost of a framework so that each Framework costs around 5-10 Encryptions instead of 50. Would still be grindy but not on a impossible level. If it was lowered to 5 for example you would still need 810 power cells and energy nodes and 1.620 crystal alloys and alien data cubes. Most PVE guilds would have 100-200 of those mats lying around, but they definitely wouldn't have thousands of those, so it would still be something to work towards, the difference makes it achievable however.

Alternatively, they could change the material cost for Dark Project so that it only requires 1 Power Cell 1 Rakata Energy Node 2 Alien Data Cubes and 2 Biometric Alloys. So reducing from a 3/6/3/6 to a 1/2/1/2. However since a lot of things in the game require Dark Projects, maybe they would have to consider how this would affect the game overall.

Edit: Of course, there is always the third option of immensely increasing the drop rate of those materials from OPs, conquest rewards, etc.

You are assuming hitting top10 will be a viable option for everyone. The problem is we really have no information on that, as it will heavily depend on how many planets will be in play regularly. On PTS it was 3, which I assume will be the minimum, the maximum was 15+? So that thats 30-150 (or so) spots. How many guilds do you think there are per server? How many of them do not put a regular 4-6 hours of playtime in every day?

can they put the homeworlds and starter planets on the conquest list? I dont think so but I could be wrong. that would leave 13 planets for conquest

@OP

I welcome these requirements for unlocks in guildships for 2 reasons. I haven't read all posts in this thread, so I am not sure if they were brought up yet. Anyway, for my taste even more mats should be required for the unlocks. However, I agree that is not a good thing that there is no lvl 55 content to get them. Here are my 2 points why I think the huge amount of mats needed is a good thing:

1) Durability of content

On these forums I have seen many posts critizing progression raiders for burning through new content or new difficulty modes and then complaining about hat there is nothing left to do in the game. Consequently, making it almost a never-ending story to upgrade your guildship is a good thing for the game in general. People will have something meaningful to do for a very long time.

If the amount of mats was much smaller, then you would see some hardcore guilds having unlocked and upgraded everything in their guildship within a few weeks and people would start complaining about having no more goal to achieve in the game. Also, it would probably be the hardcore players who would get all the mats as fast as possible, which leads to my second point.

2) Everybody can contribute: hardcore and casual players

My guild has 2 NiM teams, one of the being the main progression group of the guild and forming around the guildmaster. This group does almost only NiM and they are the true core of the guild. They are all hardcore players who achieved almost everything there is to achieve in this game: PvE, PvP, rare mounts, rewards, achievments, crafting, tons of millions of credits. You name it, they got it.

I myself am only a casual HM raider. I got some well geared toons and if a spot for some HM guild ops needs to be filled, I can help out in any role. And that's everything I actually can contribute to our guild life aside from being social in guild chat or on TS. So I cannot help my guild in any way in terms of progression. Also not with crafting. I can craft a few things like stims, Mk-9 kits, some augments and I would like to provide this stuff for free to guildies in the guild bank, just to do anything for my guild. But you know what? It's not needed. The hardcore players are crafting so much and have an almost infinite supply with these things. It wouldn't make any difference if I offer my crafted stuff to the guild or not. It has no impact at all.

However, since the amount of required mats is so high, it is almost impossible for a small group of players to get everything done on their own. The worst thing that could happen for me is that I log in after the release of guildships and all I read in guild chat is: "we have already unlocked everything with saved up mats and we just ran the ops a few times. no need for you to gather mats."

Now I can actually contribute something to my guild's advancement in the game. Everybody's help is needed to accomplish this huge mission. I can run the content - and as I said, I agree that this content could be a little more challenging - to gather more mats and I can give them to the guild. That will give me the feeling that I'm helping my guild and that my contribution makes a difference. It will feel awesome. And since there is point 1) I can get this feeling for a very long time.

I hope, you understand what I am trying to say. I personally think that the harder it is to unlock and upgrade everything in your guildships the better, because that means that this will involve everybody, casual or hardcore, and it will keep people busy with doing something meaningful for quite a long time.

Edit: I also enjoy pvping occasionally and even had a toon on a PvP server once. The reason I abandoned it was that I find the current open world rather pointless unless you wanna grind some achievements. I think it is good for the game to add a point to open world PvP, especially for the PvP crowd, of course.