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Bioware Strikes Again! Stupid Flashpoint Changes that were never needed!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Bioware Strikes Again! Stupid Flashpoint Changes that were never needed!

UTlNNl's Avatar


UTlNNl
07.22.2014 , 09:18 AM | #11
The cave strat literally made the fight solo'able. (The rest of the mission is as well, but now I think I wouldn't be able to get past the beast)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...6_UbOgaQ#t=383

Gnimish's Avatar


Gnimish
07.22.2014 , 09:31 AM | #12
The only complaint I have is them nerf the tactical Flashpoint koribbon and tython, very needless

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
07.22.2014 , 09:47 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Ive done labs with all melee plenty of times. I havent noticed this "adds having infinite aggro range problem." What are you talking about?

As for Athiss, if the only kind of boss fight you can handle is one that sits still while you pound on it, might I recommend the Training Dummies? You can even solo those. Go get 'em, tiger!
Used to the adds in Corp Labs wouldnt aggro unless you AOE'd them. now, they will aggro at ANY range, and their laser attack has an infinite range too.

The point of the cave/pond stratagey is to make the boss less difficult. those adds if not dealt with quickly can kill a group even with a really good healer (my dad can attest to that as his main is a Mercinary Healer, and he is nearly the top healer in my guild [Gone Sithing on The Harbinger]) So, the knowledge of being able to kite the boss previously isnt an exploit, it's a tactical advantage. If your fighting something, you want every single advantage you can get right? Cause, if you dont your kinda stupid. It's similar with the wookie fight in HM Cad, that's a tactical advantage, not an exploit...

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
07.22.2014 , 10:16 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Used to the adds in Corp Labs wouldnt aggro unless you AOE'd them. now, they will aggro at ANY range, and their laser attack has an infinite range too.

The point of the cave/pond stratagey is to make the boss less difficult. those adds if not dealt with quickly can kill a group even with a really good healer (my dad can attest to that as his main is a Mercinary Healer, and he is nearly the top healer in my guild [Gone Sithing on The Harbinger]) So, the knowledge of being able to kite the boss previously isnt an exploit, it's a tactical advantage. If your fighting something, you want every single advantage you can get right? Cause, if you dont your kinda stupid. It's similar with the wookie fight in HM Cad, that's a tactical advantage, not an exploit...
? WHAT ADDS? Are you talking about the little droids that spawn in the first boss fight? They are supposed to attack, it was a very long standing bug that they didnt. All you have to do is break off every other electricity phase, tap them twice and they die. Thats nothing....

Your idea of "a really good healer" is clearly different than mine. Have you ever done an operation? (Im just trying to imagine a guild advert: '<Gone Sithing> is now recruiting for Tactical and HMFP progression content. Apply today and come push the boundaries of SWToR!")

As far as defending your exploiting as "tactics," just .. dont. Its too sad to be funny. Hell, most of the time these "tactics" you love so much just make the fight more difficult. If your tank has more than two neurons to rub together (which is a freaking hilarious joke from about 3 different angles), the wookie himself kills all the adds for you. Instead of trying to glitch the boss out because youre scared of a few ugnaughts, you could just do it the RIGHT way, and have an EASIER time.

JMagee's Avatar


JMagee
07.22.2014 , 10:16 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Used to the adds in Corp Labs wouldnt aggro unless you AOE'd them. now, they will aggro at ANY range, and their laser attack has an infinite range too.

The point of the cave/pond strategy (sp) is to make the boss less difficult. those adds if not dealt with quickly can kill a group even with a really good healer (my dad can attest to that as his main is a Mercenary (sp) Healer, and he is nearly the top healer in my guild [Gone Sithing on The Harbinger]) So, the knowledge of being able to kite the boss previously isnt an exploit, it's a tactical advantage. If your fighting something, you want every single advantage you can get right? Cause, if you dont your kinda stupid. It's similar with the wookie fight in HM Cad, that's a tactical advantage, not an exploit...

I don't think your definition of Kiting and the generally accepted definition are 100% the same.

Kiting the Beast would be running it around the area where it spawns, outside of it's range, so you take little to no damage.

Bringing it to the Cave "broke" the adds. You just pull the Beast a long way away, take just as much damage, and basically do no kiting. Was it easier? Yes. Was it helpful when I was doing Athiss HM undergeared with people I didn't know? Absolutely

Is it an exploit? Probably not.
But avoiding adds and how the fight is supposed to work is certainly not kiting.

A lot of people will tell you something to the effect of: "The fight is not that hard. If you want to see additional content and progression, learn to handle the fight as it is, not look for ways to "cheese" mechanics. Get better as a player and it will be better for everyone".

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
07.22.2014 , 10:44 AM | #16
I'm glad this of this change on Athiss. The cave tactic gain popularity lately and it's annoying. Such a hassle.

Few months back, I don't remember it being so common. People just dealt with adds with little problem. But yeah, the other day, with my new PT tank, I was getting lower and lower, because dps ignored them. I had to type in chat they should kill them...

As for the shuttle thing, it's an annoying tactic too, and more often than not, you end up with a bunch of remarkably tough little ****** hassling the group after the wookie is dead.

While annoying, the cave thing was effective. The shuttle thing on Cademimu, is not. I really don't know how it became popular being so unreliable.

Halinalle's Avatar


Halinalle
07.22.2014 , 11:02 AM | #17
I'm actually glad they fixed the Beast. Cave strategy was "exploit". Problem with it was that if tank didn't know about it then using it would be almost impossible because usually tank wasn't... optimal... for task anyway.
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Gardimuer's Avatar


Gardimuer
07.22.2014 , 11:08 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Used to the adds in Corp Labs wouldnt aggro unless you AOE'd them. now, they will aggro at ANY range, and their laser attack has an infinite range too.

The point of the cave/pond stratagey is to make the boss less difficult. those adds if not dealt with quickly can kill a group even with a really good healer (my dad can attest to that as his main is a Mercinary Healer, and he is nearly the top healer in my guild [Gone Sithing on The Harbinger]) So, the knowledge of being able to kite the boss previously isnt an exploit, it's a tactical advantage. If your fighting something, you want every single advantage you can get right? Cause, if you dont your kinda stupid. It's similar with the wookie fight in HM Cad, that's a tactical advantage, not an exploit...
There's your problem. You don't need ranged dps to deal with those adds. You just need any dps and tank who know what they are doing. And the range of the laser attack isn't "infinite", it's 30 meters, the same as any other ranged mob in the game.

As for your claims of how difficult the Athiss boss is, I feel pretty bad for Gone Sithing if their top healer considers the fight challenging.
1) Tank holds the boss in the doorway to avoid getting knocked around and uses AoE to pick up the adds as soon as they spawn.
2) DPS AoE down the adds within 10 seconds.
3) Healer stands to the side and pretty much only has to heal the tank since kolto shells are enough for everyone else.

Regarding the Cademimu "stand on shuttle" tactic, that trick is passable if your tank is too incompetent to realize he can just snap and hold agro on the adds by doing AoE damage on them as soon as they appear (the adds stick to whoever first enters their aggro table when they come down). But if your tank actually knows how to get agro the trick is a waste of time.

g_land's Avatar


g_land
07.22.2014 , 11:34 AM | #19
I'm sorry, I am still remembering your outrage over how 9 people in an ops couldn't down Op IX on HM...

This change only means you have to kill little tiny adds that basically evaporate, gee golly willikers. Calling people who think that its easy to do it that way stupid just reemphasizes the L2P response you continually require.

Kryand's Avatar


Kryand
07.22.2014 , 11:50 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Used to the adds in Corp Labs wouldnt aggro unless you AOE'd them. now, they will aggro at ANY range, and their laser attack has an infinite range too.

The point of the cave/pond stratagey is to make the boss less difficult. those adds if not dealt with quickly can kill a group even with a really good healer (my dad can attest to that as his main is a Mercinary Healer, and he is nearly the top healer in my guild [Gone Sithing on The Harbinger]) So, the knowledge of being able to kite the boss previously isnt an exploit, it's a tactical advantage. If your fighting something, you want every single advantage you can get right? Cause, if you dont your kinda stupid. It's similar with the wookie fight in HM Cad, that's a tactical advantage, not an exploit...
No offense, but if an HMFP healer is worth a damn, the group literally has to try to kill themselves for there to be any possibility of a wipe (or even a single death) at any point in any of the HMFPs. I do agree with the sentiment that avoiding "cheese" strategies just for the sake of "honor" or "the intended method", when said "cheese" method requires no extra effort, is stupid. But the Athiss cave did require extra effort in that you had to waste time killing more adds and dragging the boss around, and was therefore the inferior tactic.
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