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Where is the challenge?


Paintaker's Avatar


Paintaker
07.19.2014 , 09:29 AM | #1
I am enjoying SWTOR and credit the game with many creative ideas. The player community too seems much stronger than most other games.

But the lack of challenge in PVE is a bit discouraging. I enjoy the stories and cinematics, but the content is so easy it discourages planning, strategy or player discussion. I can't speak about ops - I assume there is challenge there, but as a casual player to find challenge in PVE content does that mean I have to try and schedule ops in my game time to see a challenge?

I'm an average player at best - this is not an ego post. Most of you reading this are far better players than I will ever be.

I was looking forward to hard modes - only to find they are so damn easy I actually spend time in PVP since there is more challenge there (and I really suck at PVP).

If the content is not a bit challenging it really removes any need for players to discuss and plan. As tank, this is what I notice about "hard modes":

- No pulling. Why bother.
- Kill order/ marking. Why bother.
- No crowd control. Why bother - just gather them up and destroy them as a group.
- Boss fights - no interrupts. Every boss seems immune to interrupts, which as a tank means you have less to do, are less engaged, and less responsible for boss actions.
- Mechanics. If I read nothing about a hard mode and I just avoid anything that glows on the ground and not stand in it - seems I can tank pretty much anything in hard mode despite the fact I have never done the boss fight before - ever - in SWTOR.

What I am asking for is some challenging PVE content that does not have to be an OP (again not done OPs yet). As a casual player it is hard to set aside the time for raiding but surely there must be other challenges.

I realize in other games like WoW heroics are easy mode in current expansions - that's part of the reason why my friends and I left.

I miss thoughtful gameplay. SWTOR is a great game that could be much more.

ZooMzy's Avatar


ZooMzy
07.19.2014 , 09:40 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Paintaker View Post
I can't speak about ops - I assume there is challenge there, but as a casual player to find challenge in PVE content does that mean I have to try and schedule ops in my game time to see a challenge?
The answer is yes.

NiM FPs would be nice, but the real challenge in this game is finding 7 or 15 other players that are dependable, capable, and play the game in line with your own desires.

Just like society, it's a pretty hard game to play in my opinion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Paintaker View Post
As a casual player it is hard to set aside the time for raiding but surely there must be other challenges.
I also find the hypocrisy in this quote to be amusing.

grrrly's Avatar


grrrly
07.19.2014 , 09:49 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Paintaker View Post
I miss thoughtful gameplay. SWTOR is a great game that could be much more.
It is, you just aren't doing the right content. If you don't have time to do ops, I can only suggest that you make your own challenges. Maybe try soloing hard mode flashpoints or heroic 4s.

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
07.19.2014 , 10:03 AM | #4
Not sure if this helps but while levelling my last 2 imp ALT's I decided to get achievement for all elite mobs on Illum. There is a certain rebel (ekhm republic) defence droid there. I found that my levelling character had no chance so I logged my dreadforged geared Sorc healer and spent about 2 hours finding ways to kill it. I was close to sending my dreadmaster off-hand from pub side..... but managed to kill it eventually when it killed my tank comp at 10% and I kited it for 2 minutes while healing myself and dotting it with affliction. Having done NiM DF and most 3/5 DP this was most challending fight solo I have done in a while
Ingalaarn Conqueror of the Dread Fortress / Ji'kiley Deposer of the Dread Masters
Joshased From Beyond / Dread Slayer Xartanol
Manticore @ The Red Eclipse

cxten's Avatar


cxten
07.19.2014 , 10:19 AM | #5
Short answer: Yes, do (hard mode and) nightmare mode operations to have challenging content.

That said, there are times flashpoints have not been faceroll easy like they are now. Two differences:

1) They aren't making flashpoints as challenging as they used to. Lost Island (and, to a lesser degree, Kaon) were actually challenging back in 1.2, in level 50 gear. I'd recommend doing these if you haven't yet (they're level 50 hardmodes). They won't actually be challenging (since you'll be so overgeared you can ignore most mechanics) but you'll see mechanics that are more interesting than the ones you see in current hard modes.

Lost Island and Kaon were great, I thought, and I would be pleased if there are some more at that level in the future (at current/future gear levels).

2) We're more than a year into the 2.0 (makeb) expansion. Players are by this point quite overgeared (even new players, since they improved what you can buy with comms and now give 156 gear away). The level 55 hard modes were easier than Lost Island / Kaon were in their day, but they weren't faceroll like they are now.

Now it's unusual to see more than one or two players in the flashpoint in 156 gear. When it came out, the norm was for all the players to be in 148 or 156 gear. Doing content when it's fresh is the way to have a challenge.

Unfortunately, there isn't much fresh content, and the fresh content they're bringing out tends to be those tactical flashpoints.

We'll see if the situation improves whenever they decide to bring out 3.0 I guess. At least people won't be overgeared immediately then I suppose.

Loc_n_lol's Avatar


Loc_n_lol
07.19.2014 , 10:22 AM | #6
To be fair, hard mode flashpoints used to be more challenging. The problem is the gear inflation is trivializing all but the newest, hardest content, and outside of ops, nothing has been added to match the gear. Instead, we're getting more actual casual content, like "tactical" flashpoints...
The Red Eclipse
Jayšey - Gol'dy - Raibbach - Locnlol - Rex'Power'Colt - Ki'Sazen
Nyctis - Dre'xin - Jaegerk - Nahzeer - Pan'thera - Crystei

Adaliaya's Avatar


Adaliaya
07.20.2014 , 10:36 AM | #7
Try Toborro's courtyard HM. Its like an Ops but contains only one boss and is usually done in less than hour.

MASOLIZ's Avatar


MASOLIZ
07.20.2014 , 11:00 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Loc_n_lol View Post
To be fair, hard mode flashpoints used to be more challenging. The problem is the gear inflation is trivializing all but the newest, hardest content, and outside of ops, nothing has been added to match the gear. Instead, we're getting more actual casual content, like "tactical" flashpoints...
^This
Rordum Rordrum Rordoom Tri'bobo Ro'r
Exiled then Banished

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
07.20.2014 , 11:05 AM | #9
I am just levelling my PT tank from 50 to 55 and mostly doing HM FP's. Even with randomly assembled unaugmented gear and PUG's it's complete faceroll. Even Foundry HM with 12k HP healer was a joke.
Ingalaarn Conqueror of the Dread Fortress / Ji'kiley Deposer of the Dread Masters
Joshased From Beyond / Dread Slayer Xartanol
Manticore @ The Red Eclipse

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
07.20.2014 , 04:50 PM | #10
LI and Kaon made you kinda think, too. There were mechanics that you had to understand or figure out. The only thing hardmode about mando, athiss, cad and hammer are the big dog pulls in mando and cad, and the big droid pulls in athiss and hammer. Thats it. Each of those four trash fights is the hardest part about each instance. And all they are are "Is your healer afk or not?"