OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

I have my own method.

First time around, I can be forgiving. I jump in afterwards, waste a AoE taunt but I am forgiving. I then urge, politely, the über awesome DPS to cool down and to allow me, the tank, to jump ahead first. If he doesn't oblige, I start /clubdance and watch as the healer tries to heal him, before he dies. Once he is dead, I jump in and with the help of the other DPS and healer, we take twice as long(!) - most likely - to kill whatever group we're fighting.

Three scenarios usually occur after that.

He gets the hint and stops doing that which is annoying.
He abandons the group even before we finish killing the group of enemies he decided to attack first.
He doesn't get at all and does it again, which by then he dies - AGAIN(!!!) - before being kicked from the group, since 9/10 people understand why a Vote Kick is being made and they happily oblige.

In the last two scenarios, the use of vulgarity by the über DPS is a common recurrence. Can't be avoided. Too sad.

So why don't I tank (anymore/in this game)?

• I don't know anything about the instances. I'm a 'Founder' but have always been a PvP+solo PvE player. Beyond Black Talon / Esseless my experience is limited to "I think I've been there... once... in 2012".
• I have no idea about the gear and the stats and it's not really explained in game. If itemization is as bad as the dps one (after you get the gear you need to replace 50% of all mods and enhancements -.-) I'd totally fail.
• I hardly have reliably "predictable 60 minutes at a time" (that's why I solo and solo-queue) anymore and I HATE letting a group down.
• I'm on the countryside in #Neuland germany... Internet sucks. Disconnects are frequent and lagspikes up to 10k (due to massive loss on the long-range-wireless) that can last for hours are quite regular at times when people like me are at home and not at work. So I'm really happy if playtime and working internet meet. And can't trust it to remain that way for any extended amount of time.

I actually liked doing PUG in world of warcraft. Before x-server and groupfinder turned it into a cesspool of d*ckheads and egomaniacs. I tanked pugs for rewards afterwards ... but never with the same engagement. x-Server turned the groupmembers into 'mostly really dumb and/orarrogant bots' for me.
I love that there is no such thing as cross-server-queue in swtor and you actually get to meet the good people you found via random finder again -be it pvp or pve. So the above are really the only reasons I don't tank. And at least the "no guaranteed time or net " is not going away. And I know how much it sucks if a teammember - especially the tank - has to leave/lags out.

Most people I know don't tank due to reasons similar to mine or because they simply don't like it. (as in "don't like being the driver / the center of attention / the one who is watched so closely by everyone")

Why don't you tank? Or do you?

Even if I could tank it, I don't do it as DPS. For one simple reason: I like to focus on killing stuff without need to survive (avoiding mechanics lowers my dps already too much).

That's not a bad idea, the comms cap is most likely a reason why tanks quite simply do not need to do HM FP on a regular basis. A few OPS and you're there, so why bother with HM FP when you are;

1 - Comm capped (both Elite comms and Ultimate comms). It isn't exactly hard to reach the cap on either.
2 - Are geared enough to not need the gear that drops in HM Flashpoints.

Aside from that I hate tanking pug hm flashpoints purely because most DPS are complete and utter idiots. I rolled a tank and healer purely for the learning experience on how to improve my primary role as a DPS player.

Flip side, I've got a lot of players on my friend list who primarily tank or primarily heal, because they know the value in having a good DPS player who doesn't make their role completely suck. I always let the tank lead the fights, I don't question if we wait for a moment to carry on (knowing they have cooldowns they may need in a fight), my aggro drop is in constant use during fights. Basically as a DPS player, I don't pull aggro making the tank and healers job easier.

Yet I see so many DPS players who simply don't follow the hierarchy, yes they can do some amazing damage, not much use if everyone dies though

There's a way around that. WoW had a small incentive which could be expanded on. Once you had grouped with enough pugs - i.e. people that the GF assigned to you rather than were already grouped with, you got a pet. A pug

So it should be possible to actually give rewards to those who queue for a needed role alone, rather than cheating the concept. Still not convinced it would help though...

A one time reward for doing it x times will just get done and you're back to now.

That's why I suggested something like the BoL-Free-Augment-Kit + some money - so a tank player gets stuff out of it, even if it's just for his style-gear and/or his alts and their style. I doubt that many dedicated players would ever run out of something to change.

That's 100% true on the boss, Genius, but not 100% true on the adds. IF the healer is supporting strong DPS, there should be no issue with the DPS taking out the trash. But Tanks get so pissy now that they won't even bother to say they had an issue. No one was struggling.

Had he said something, yes I would have held back. I was trying to get things done faster, knowing my class well. When that Tank left, NO ONE in the group had any issue with anything that happened because none of us even knew there was an issue. Tank wasn't pulling anything, simple trash mobs infront of us, we'll clear them out of the way.

The fact that more tanks are upset about this just shows how pissy you all are getting. I'd rather you not que as tank anymore because your experiences now magnify anything someone does to be the worst thing possible without seeing any reason.

I'll just que hybrid dps/tank and not have to worry about the majority of tanks in this thread that are so up in arms over Flashpoints.

The lack of learning demonstrated by threads like this is astounding.

Every time a damage dealer posts a complaint about how long it takes to find groups or the lack of tanks, even if that's veiled as a "suggestion" to bribe tanks to queue, they always get the same answers:

1) Stop sucking as a damage dealer so you can get on the friend lists of good tanks and healers... or

2) Roll a tank and solve the problem for yourself because it really isn't that hard but bad players definitely make it that frustrating

But they still come right back around to bribes, even after however many pages this thread has gotten to (depends on your forum settings).

The cold, harsh reality is that good tanks don't need to queue for randoms, ever. Good tanks are in good guilds filled with good healers and good damage dealers. Good tanks can log in, type, "/g Anyone up for a hard mode?" and instantly fill a group. During the odd times they don't have enough guild mates on, they can easily go to their friend lists - people who have established a pattern of excellent behavior and competent performance - and draw from that.

Only as a last resort would a good tank ever need to queue for a random.

Good tanks don't need bribes. Good tanks do what they do because they enjoy it. The enjoyment is reward enough. They queue plenty with their guild mates or circle of friends, just not for randoms.

The reason they don't queue for randoms is because players they get grouped with make the experience unfun... fun... you know, that thing we're all supposed to be having in a game.

This brings us right back around to the answers above. If you don't want to play a tank, but you want to play parts of the game that require a tank, stop making those parts of the game unfun for the tank. If you impress a tank enough with your behavior and capability as a damage dealer, you will wind up on that tank's friend list... his go-to list of people to queue with when he gets sick of the garbage he finds in randoms.

Or, alternatively, if somehow the majority of really horribad damage dealers get this memo and improve to the point that randoms are fun rather than frustrating for tanks, maybe... just maybe... tanks will queue for them more.

You may now return to your normally scheduled session of trying to figure out what bribe it will take to get tanks to queue for randoms aside from players not sucking. I don't think a deformed womp rat pet is going to do it. I don't think extra commendations are going to do it. I don't think credits are going to do it (they could, but BioWare wouldn't set the price high enough to make it worth it). Good luck.

Guild tanks aren't really the topic here. Yes they have a made life and it's fun and really rewarding in itself to run with guildies.

However the PUGs want tanks too. And even 'average' tanks or dedicated solo players who level as tank are often better than no tanks at all. However, there is currently nothing in place to reward them for being as tough as they are.

This attitude right here is what tanks get ticked off about. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean that you should even if it makes it marginally faster.

By jumping in first, you are basically saying "I only needed you for the pop, noob". It's disrespectful. Also, since it is a PUG GF, you can't guarantee the gear / ability of the tank and he may still be learning his class. By jumping in first you are essentially robbing the tank of an opportunity to learn how to grab aggro without using an AOE taunt.

If the tank constantly stares at the mobs for 20s before pulling, you might have a point but then you should say something in chat and / or initiate a vote kick.