OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

*Puts thinking cap on*
I don't use GF because DPS doesn't understand how to play in a group.
Other tanks have post the same thing here.
Therefore common factor here is DPS that doesn't understand how to group...
I'm so glad you came along to help us figure it out.....

I've generally had good luck with my PUG queuing. But it is always discouraging running into That one guy

Don't be that guy and everything will be fine.

Both healing and tanking are made 10 times harder if your dps doesn't know how to play...and blames it on you.

I used to tank in 55 hm's via group finder all the time, on both my juggernaut and my shadow. It's just not worth the headache to me anymore though, and the classes themselves aren't the problem.

Players that try to backseat tank and don't know what they're talking about are really. .. really. .. annoying. Dps that just go full retard at every opportunity, then blame the healer and me when they pull and we're paying no attention to things line oh, the sorc is resting to regen force? Utterly intolerable.

I once got into a GF run in which the healer was threatening to drop off he didn't get every bit of loot he wanted.

And my personal favorite? The dorks that snark off at me when I'm going 'anyone not know this fight?', then promptly demonstrate no knowledge of how the boss works and, often as not, lamely try to save face by saying that 'their Guilds does it like this'.

I don't even use GF much anymore because people are so damn dumb so damn frequently, and it's often my only option to do that content since I've never found a good guild doing such things at times that work for me.

I simply don't do that content anymore most of the time.

I main a 55 Assassin tank and have pretty much all but given up on GF HMs. It has ended up being a last resort if my guild is extremely slow one day. The main reason is people failing to communicate or listen to basic strategies.

When I did use GF regularly, I would always ask if it was anybodies first time in that FP or if they needed to know any of the mechanics. Maybe one out of 10 times I would get someone who actually admits to not knowing the fights, and I gladly explained the fights to them. A simple explanation takes far less time than wiping over and over again.

Sadly, most of the time, people never speak up and refuse to listen to basic commands or leave mobs CC'd. They end up failing at mechanics, waking up CC'd mobs, AoEing mobs away from me, and yet still complain about either the heals or the tanking. Too many DPS have a "my job is just to hurt enemies" mentality. They dont take the time to either learn fights or ask for help learning fights. They think they can just jump in there and spam attacks and the tank/healer will take care of EVERYTHING else. The sooner they realize how important it is to know what they are doing, the sooner they will actually have successful runs and possibly the sooner tanks/heals will use GF more often.

My god, are you telling me that all of my experiences have me as a common factor? And here I thought sometimes my experiences were of other people.

And let's put our thinking caps on here for a moment. If a bunch of tanks come into a thread and complain and agree that bad DPS makes groupfinder painful then it's no longer just one person is it? Just stating the obvious.

Especially when it isn't unique to this game either...

WoW has the same gosh darn issue and how long has it been out?

The only games that don't have this issue either:
A) don't have any sort of group finder
B) don't use the trinity (guild wars 2)

edit:

I do not say gosh darn... god dammit!

Tank groups with two DD's via-GF.

Said DD's break CC repeatedly. Do not interrupt. Focus on stronger enemies, instead of attacking weaker ones first. Allow healer to be overwhelmed by ten Standard or Weak enemies. Use stealth next to enemies who can see through stealth.

Obvious conclusion?Makes sense.

yeah, that reasoning would fly if all the experiences were bad. they are not. but enough of them are bad to discourage you from trying in hopes that you may get lucky.

when my vanguard tank tanks from range, using explosive round and full auto, and I as a healer end up tanking majority of the pull, when sage dps is actualy specced for heals (and doesn't respec) uses forcequake on solo mobs, and disturbance on multi target pulls, breaks cc when there's no need to break it and needs on every. single. drop. I'm not the one who is a problem here.

when dps leap in before tanks, scatter mobs with knockbacks, attack wrong mobs, run off on their own, come into a HM lvl 55 flashpoint wearing lvl 29 blues and greens... if you are lucky and they have THAT much. that is NOT me being bad.

I may not be the best of tanks (or even healers) but in good groups, I have no issues. when I encounter new players who are willing to listen and work as a team - I have no issues, I mean we may not be able to kill bonus bosses with short enrage timers, but otherwise, we get it done and I'm completely fine with that. but the ratio of bad groups to good groups is starting to get worse and worse. and this is why fewer and fewer of us are willing to pug.

lets put our thinking caps on here and put the blame where it belongs.

So WOW do some people want to try and make this about me it seems so lets clear up many misquotes and misstatements

1) I normally play healers, not DPS, and yes the 8 hours and 12 hour times listed included multiple healer characters in queues. Only have a couple DPS, so that part of arguement goes out with the bathwater.

2) I am the most silent, non confrontational player you will meet in a FP. So for those taking 3-4 words from my Original post and misquoting it. Sorry not on anyones hate list from abusing Tanks. I fully understand how rare they are and go out of my way to make their jobs easier if I can.

And btw, not every single tank is competent as many try to show here. I said 2nd group yesterday was a bad group. Healer in that group (merc with almost 40k health but only doing low 500s for his blaster shot heals...my Merc when speced heals is well over 600 hps for same heal because I'm not end heavy and rather stacked aim/power) who was clearly in over his head. Well it didn't help that the tank was not pulling the Mob in the Desert encounter of Czerka flash point to the green pods for him to destroy and weaken himself. Tank just stood fighting and not moving even when I would be calling location when a pod was lite up. NOT every tank is a great player as some like to claim here.

This tank could definitely benefit from his/her class being easier to play.

3) For those saying "Solution is, make a tank". WHAT PART OF I leveled a Guardian tank to 50 last year only to find out the class is hell to play for me. Next up are my Shadow Tank and my Vangard Tank. So sorry if reading a full post asking to much before your smart *** and non helpful response.

4) The end goal of every player is NOT to do OPS.
I did the hard mode ops stuff and put up with the elitist attitudes of HM Raiders before Makeb.
Been there done that, have no desire at all to return to running ops.
Its the same crappy attitude that eventually takes over in ops guilds for the last 23 years In MMORPGs.
Doesnt matter how well they get on now, the drama and nonsense always comes up in those guilds and I have no interest in it anymore.
Just wanna log in, run my dailies, weekly (CZ/Oricon/ maybe Makeb), do my tactical and HM Flashpoints. And do events when on.
That shouldnt be that big a desire to be honest to successfully fill

5) In previous games Ive played the tank role very successfully. LOVED my paladin in DAoC and was very good at the class. Loved my Tank in Rift and again had great success with it. Loved my tank styled character in UO and EQ and had success there as well.

Did NOT like the tank spec here in SW:TOR for Guardians (as I said in OP, dont know about Shadow or Vangard yet as both are very low level still for me).

So its not like Im saying this with out experiencing at least one of the tank specs.
I found the Guardian tank way to busy and convoluted for what should be a pretty straightforward experience truth be told.

Truth is on Harbinger server we have a lack of tanks going in the Queue for GF HM.
The few still remaining in game when they do join me, the que pops instantly when we que up. INSTANTLY Fills 2 dps or dps and healer slots.
So doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out

with tank instant fill ins
no tank and doesn't matter if healer or dps, your waiting hours

Geeee, it looks like there is a shortage of tanks queing based on THE FACTS.

Ending:
The problem on my server is there is no tanks queing up for GF HM and players sit for hours and hours hoping for a pop.
Now you can act all ignorant and almighty and blame DPSer if you want
I've seen good and bad DPSers, just like I've seen good and bad healers and tanks
No class has a better track record over the other on player behavior and misbehavior
But no one also can fill in for the missing classes when one goes dry like tanks have on my server
The game literally needs to do something to attract more tank spec players
You shouldnt have people sitting for multiple hours every day hoping for que pops

Bad groups will happen when you use GF
shrug it off and try again
Id dare say that most groups are good to great groups in GF
Its maybe 10% of time you get a bad group so amazes me how much some people dwell on and focus on that 10% rather then seeing the benefit and good experience of the other 90% of time.

The problem is the shortage of tanks

A bad player can be taught to do better
A non existant player will remain non existant
If the issue was a teaching issue I could handle that
ITS NOT

PS: Ive never understood this btw
Tank players really bad for this
"I dont do Flashpoints because some players abuse me"

Thats like saying "I dont swim because I once didnt know how to"

If someone abuses you in a flashpoint, put them on ignore and you will never EVER be grouped again with them in a GF Flashpoint/OPS

But for some reason many ion this thread seem to think if one person abusive, then its reasonable to punish the entire player base for it.

Just ignore the abusers.
Make their behavior have repercussions
The more idiots you put on ignore
The better your groups will become as you have weeded out many of the chronic problem players
Dont punish the whole for the bad behavior of the few

haha, that's an awesome saying!