An interesting thread over at Reddit about GSF......

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/commen...fallen_out_of/

Quite a few folks chatting about why they left GSF, no longer play, or only gave it a quick try, as well as others that speak to how painful it was to start out and why they do not level it on alts.

In my eyes the mistakes made in the design of the feature are self evident and have come home to roost. I don't know the metrics...I assume very few if any outside of Bioware do, but I would assume (and that is all it is) the lack of interest surprised Bioware, and the feature did not meet expectations with respect to player retention or interest overall.

I base that on some clues given in public statements, I made a list of those statements in the past, I will try and find them again.

Here are the mistakes I think they made with GSF...and this is just my view. Folks are welcome to disagree or post their own views and lists.

1) No joystick support
This, IMO, should have been a given. It does not matter if joystick use is not as common as it used to be...it is EXTREMELY common with console gaming folks. BF2 (which I think this feature attempted to emulate in some form) was VERY popular with console gamers obviously, and that bled over into PC use....in my experience mostly with joysticks. I think that was expected here and it's absence was not well received.

2) Poor tutorial
The tutorial, IMO, is barely adequate. I does next to nothing to prepare someone for what awaits them IMO.

3) Steep learning curve
The controls are complicated, too many specials, too much equipment, far too large of a gap between top level fully geared players and newcomers....this is more SWTOR PVP in spaceships than it is BF2.

4) Lack of PVE/Turret Play/On foot combat/Capital ship control points....etc.
Essentially the things that rounded out BF2 and made it a very popular game IMO. It has one single element of that game, but it is poorly executed IMO.

The feature does have it's merits, and certainly is a vast improvement over the PVE space feature that, IMO, was a total disaster with respect to player reception and participation, but it still falls far short of what it could have been.

This was one of the turning moments of the game IMO, a chance for the game to really break out of it's launch funk and gain momentum...something that did not happen in my eyes due to a lackluster design and lack of vision.

I would love to hear other opinions on this, even if to disagree with every point I made. All views are welcome. Thank you for reading.

I think two of your points are the major reason for the downfall. One is that is pvp only. This isnt a pvp centric game plus the pvp commuity didnt really want pvp space combat from what i hear. The second is the gear grind and its pretty discouraging getting smoked in matches because you dont have the adequate skills. They would of been better of shelving it and designing a pve ai for it. I thought the controls were fine however. I dont really care about joystick support but i can see why people would want it.

I know the reason I chose not to play it was the PvP only. I'm not good at at flight games, and I don't want to get regularly blown to smithereens trying to learn against those who are. A PvE level grind approach with simple controls and upgrades similar to JTL would have been a huge selling point for me. A PvP only experience made it into something to be avoided.

I usually try it once per month and once on any new characters I make.

I'm not stupid. I'm above average at PvE and PvP. I suck at GSF. I can't do anything. I don't know where to go or what to do. Like you said, there's way too much going on right from the get-go and a steep learning curve.

I was super excited for it but I just can't do it.

I think these highlight some good reasons why people are leaving GSF.

For me it was the poor design both from the controls, the game play through to the reason/rewards. I mastered a fighter, scout and bomber and got my kills to deaths to 5:1 after that what is there to do. Master more ships as every few months the team bring out a new ship thats slightly better than the last?

There is some novelty value in the controls but not nearly enough fun or responsive enough to keep me going back. With the launch of star citizen should I feel the need to flight sim away I will pick one that offers more. While because of the mini game design of all PvP in SWTOR its pretty much like playing a separate game anyway so its not as if I'm effecting my factions control of the drive yards or gaining some unique loot or special ability.

GSF is very much a mini game that was fun for a while but too far too limited to offer anything more.

Personally I will never participate in PvP that has gear progression. That includes ship upgrades in GSF, etc. I tried GSF when it first came out. It was fun despite being almost unplayable because of lag and the "clicking on your other monitor" bug, and I managed to go something like 25:1 K:D in my first couple matches. But as soon as I saw all the ship upgrades, I lost interest. I'm not interested in PvP where people far less skilled than me can compete with me, just because they grind more than me. I could either play it consistently to keep up with the gear race so as not to be left at a disadvantage against others who played it all day long, or I could just not play it. I went with the latter.

^this

At the beginning of the year (or was ist still in 2013?) I tried GSF. I couldn't start right away though. And when I joined, all the hardheads already had played 30 hours per day and had maxed out their ships.

My ship was naked. And my experience was devastating. It was not the least bit fun. I mean, zero, nada, zilch. I never made it to an objective. I got zero medals. I couldn't scratch any opponent. I left GSF behind.

Months later, I gave it a new shot with a new alt. I knew that the hardcore players had already moved on and that chances were good to get some equal matches. And I started to like GSF, now that some actual playing occured. Eventually, I became the one with the maxxed out ship, destroying newbies. And I feel with them.

What I want to say: In my opinion, when you start with something, you need to be "in it" right away. You have to feel the fun right away. Back in early 2012 (R.I.P. all brave republic soldiers on Ilum), the PvP in this game failed, because we had the hardheads who had already their - whatever name it was back then, Battlemaster? - PVP gear maxxed out facerolled the casuals who only wanted to enjoy some random PvP. It drove the majority of players away from PvP. It's one reason why this game immediately became a PvE-game (not that I really mind that, but anyway).

They did some changes in 1.2 to address that and later introduced bolster and that made the entrance experience into PvP for new players surely better. But then they made the same mistake with GSF and now wonder why people don't like it?

As I said: If you play your first GSF (or anything, actually), you have to get an experience that makes you want to come back. I saw both sides. First, I saw that it is zero fun to not even make it to an objective, because that geared up gunship farms you at the spawn point and you cannot even scratch it, because you are destroyed with 2 shots. Then, I became that very same gunship (or well, I didn't become it, but I play it ). The only difference is that I am not a griefer and therefore don't farm poor new players. But I can two-shot them in battle nonetheless.

Apart from that: Yes, the tutorial is a disaster. It did not help me at all. I only got into GSF after reading Dulfy's tutorial. Once again kudos to Dulfy!

1) No joystick support
While this seems to be a sticking point with many players that already own a joystick there are many that don't have an issue. Personally, I've not had a functional joystick near my PC for over a decade and quite a few of the old space sims (I'm looking at you Freelancer, worked fine with mouse control.
Of the two new space sims of interest Elite: Dangerous (joystick gives a definite edge but game perfectly playable with mouse keyboard) and Star Citizen (the turret simulator) neither require a joystick but both offer the option.

2) Poor tutorial
There was a practice area that let you get a feel for the flight controls. This was adequate for those gamers that don't need to have their hand held on every single little aspect of a game.
It gave you a chance to put fingers to keyboard and see if you needed to remap any of the keys. And, if you paid no attention to the task at hand a chance to practice some flight manoeuvers.

3) Steep learning curve
It has a learning curve. It was nice to see in the early days player skill rewarded rather than a reliance on gear.

4) Lack of PVE/Turret Play/On foot combat/Capital ship control points....etc.
The first warzone type with the satellites capture had PvE aspects. |Go capture the satellite, go shoot down defense turrets. As soon as the pure deathmatch maps appeared I started to lose interest.


For me the reasons GSF has not been an overwhelming success?

1) Expectations of what it would deliver set far too high from the start
The majority of players clamouring for Spaceship content seem to want a fully fledged spacesim. Free 6degrees of freedom spaceflight. Seemless planetary landings. Go anywhere in the Galaxy. Change vessels. Trade. Smuggle. Mine. Craft. PvE content. PvP content. Land inside capital ships and continue the fight on foot.
Those expectations may be better met through the upcoming generation of space sim games such as 'Elite: Dangerous', 'Star Citizen' and 'No Mans Land'.
That's not what the developers promised. I recall they said they were putting out a freeform spacefighter game for small squadron action. That's what they delivered.

2) No legacy hanger
This is a big issue for me. I have to choose one character per faction to play GSF on, if I'm on any other characters I don't bother queuing. With a sizable collection of alts and levelling more it means I'm rarely on the specific GSF dedicated character.

3) Released in stages
Seems to be a trend to encourage subscription numbers by offering early access. It may provide a return on investment, I wouldn't know I'm not party to the full figures. What it certainly does is ensure the initial release lacks a full range of content and allows early adapters a headstart on the gear grind.

4) Gear grind
I appreciate there will always be those players that spend far more time in game than me, have more stuff and greater skill. I live with that. But, I don't understand the continuing mentality that PvP needs a gear grind in it. Any PvP player of note I've spoken to wants to demonstrate their skill at a game, not the fact they have better gear than the newcomers.
How proud would you be to win a game of Chess if you started with 15 Queens and a King?

5) Bad match making
An ever shrinking player pool and the phased release seem to have resulted in an extremely bad situation for balanced matchmaking. When the game first launched the games were reasonable fun. There were no seriously overpowered ships (okay Gunships may have been a thing) and if you weren't into dogfighting you could go and shoot down defense turrets.
Once F2P hit you had a glut of inexperienced players in weak ships matched in with the experienced well equipped players. From my own time this seemed to result in complete whitewashes rather than closely fought matches.
And, as with the PvP reward system of giving the winners and those with most kills the most points for improving their gear you exacerbate the divide between those with and those without.

gsf is a joke anyway. Barely anyone plays it, queues as long, there is absolutely no icentive and "ground" rewards to do it and there is ltitle maps. It 's a shame that resources were simply wasted on it.