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Sniper // Gunslinger Top 3 Answers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
Sniper // Gunslinger Top 3 Answers
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
07.02.2014 , 01:54 PM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hello folks,

I apologize again for the delay! Below you will find the Sniper/Gunslinger answers returned from the combat team. Thanks!

-eric


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PVE Question:
The coming patch 2.8 will bring a few changes to the double proc relicbug and several buffs to other classes. We fear that in the recent patches preceding 2.8 and 2.8 itself the DPS gap will be widened between several classes.
We do understand that gunslingers are bringing some defensive capabilities for ourselves and a great cooldown for the raid in the form of scramblingfield. These defensive capabilities and the universal playstyle of the gunslinger might have the potential to keep us in the raiding teams. But taking a gunslinger in a raid team will lower the raid DPS and we might get changed out for higher level content just like shadows, sages or even commandos in the past.
The only exception to this is playing Engineering/Saboteur and exploit gamemechanics to drop all Scatterbombs on one location which is a highly controversial playstyle.

Question:
Does the combat team believe that a gunslingers defensive and raid utility capabilities are enough to compensate for the relatively low sustained single target damage and overall AOE damage without "exploiting" Scatter Bombs? If not, what changes do you have in mind and what timeframe can we expect those changes to occur?
We believe that many operation group leaders still prefer bringing a reliable Gunslinger/Sniper to their operations over many of the other damage dealers in the game. Our goal in boosting the sustained damage output of other classes was to give those classes a chance to actually compete for a spot in an operation group (our hearts sank seeing operation groups full of nothing but Gunslingers/Snipers and Sentinels/Marauders in their DPS slots).

As you pointed out in your question, Gunslingers/Snipers still bring a lot of utility and survivability to an operation group. If it turns out that this utility is not enough to keep a spot in an operation group for a Gunslinger/Sniper, then we will adjust damage accordingly. We know that with all the utility Gunslingers/Snipers bring to an operation group, having Gunslingers/Snipers deal sustained damage equal to that of other classes will guarantee the Gunslinger/Sniper the spot over the other classes (in the opinion of many operation group leaders), so even if we do end up needing to increase Gunslinger/Sniper sustained damage output, the increase would not be very substantial.

While we are on the topic of damage versus utility (or utility tax, as some may call it), let us clear up some confusion here, as we are currently still in the process of transitioning away from the old way of thinking, and we have to explain our current balance philosophy based on a combination of old and new thinking.
  • Old Way of Thinking (game update 2.0 and prior): Sentinels/Marauders and Gunslingers/Snipers need to bring the most DPS and the most utility, or they will not be brought to operations because they cannot tank or heal.
  • New Way of Thinking (game updates after 2.0): Every damage-dealing specialization should bring some utility, and no class or classes should have absolute damage dominance over the others (though this must also come with the general understanding that there will always be differences that can lead to players calling out “best” and “worse” specializations, because all the specializations are different, and we do not intend to turn this game into Checkers in an effort to create perfect balance by eliminating all diversity).

In the expansion after Galactic Strongholds, we intend to give all of the damage dealers some utility, such that operation group leaders will want some utility or another from every damage dealer. At that time, we intend to make the damage output closer between each damage dealing specialization as well. But we cannot do this in a regular game update, because it is a massive overhaul to our existing systems and design philosophies, and it takes a significant amount of time to implement (longer than the typical 4-8 weeks that a normal update might take). So for now, while we are forced to work with the current iteration that was solidified in game update 2.0, we must continue to consider utility versus damage – otherwise we are short-sighted, and operation group leaders will continue to build groups that have nothing but Gunslingers/Snipers and Sentinels/Marauders in their DPS slots.

Our ultimate goal is for every damage dealing specialization to viably fill the DPS role in operations. We know that we are not there yet, but we have begun the long process to get there. Please be patient as we work toward this goal and as we refer back to our old design philosophy at times to defend some of our current balance decisions.
PvP Question:
It is a well-known established fact that Gunslingers/Snipers have survival issues in arena's and most classes see them as a free kill or at the very least the class to focus first even over (healing) commandos or sages. With the sometimes deflected legshot and nerved flashbang we are dead in the water the moment we are out of cover. We know and understand that essentially you feel we need a new button and that you're hesitant to create new skills at this time. Unfortunately this puts our class in a difficult situation and we don't feel as if that is a suitable situation. For example what kind of time frame would a survival boost be implemented, by your comments so far it's going to be later rather than sooner. And in the meantime can we look forward to a temporary solution like an increase of the amount of absorb by shieldprobe/defensecreen or a ‘Cover Screen’ (SS/MM) against melee damage too?

Question:
How will you address the survivability issues which gunslingers currently are facing in Arenas?
We do not currently have any detailed plans to share regarding Gunslinger/Sniper survivability in PvP, but we know that Warzone Arenas present Gunslingers/Snipers with some situations that are difficult to survive. In a prior update, we nearly made Dodge/Evasion grant practically full invulnerability for Gunslingers/Snipers, but we pulled the change out before it went live because many players were concerned that it would be too powerful.

We agree that Gunslingers/Snipers need a bit more, as far as PvP survivability is concerned. We are open to hearing the community’s ideas here. Specifically, what would the community like to see done that increases the Gunslinger’s/Sniper’s survivability in PvP without increasing their survivability in PvE?
Wildcard question:
In the previous round of questions for Snipers, the combat team stated their dissatisfaction with the Engineering/Saboteur specialization. Noting long cooldowns on core abilities, single target limit on Interrogation Probe/Shock Charge and the energy management mechanics which all contributed to a clunky rotation and playstyle. Furthermore both in PvE and PvP Scatterbombs are highly controversial. PvP'ers are capable of one-shotting people with 10 mines but have to sacrifice their survival hightail for damage. PvE'ers face the issue of scatterbombs making up for about 20% of all damage done and a melee requirement. While the damage output is nice for the saboteur gunslinger, the combat team stated it was not intended to be used as such.

Question:
What has the combat team drawn up since the previous set of answers for resolving these issues present in the Engineering/Saboteur specialization while keeping the AoE-ness of our spec? Related to this, can we expect an official brainstorm thread where devs and the community can work together to discus possible changes?
There will be major changes to the Saboteur/Engineering Gunslinger/Sniper in the expansion after Galactic Strongholds. At this time, we cannot discuss all the details of these changes, but we can say that the changes will address the damage done by Scatter Bombs and the clunky feeling of the specialization without eliminating area-of-effect capabilities.

It is possible that we might even decide to address the Scatter Bombs issue in a prior update, but would Saboteur/Engineering players want this skill toned down if they are not also receiving an overhaul to the rest of their skill tree with it? Let us know!
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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DieGhostDie
07.02.2014 , 02:07 PM | #2
Edit: Going to re-evaluate my opinion on the three questions later.
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Selenial
07.02.2014 , 02:16 PM | #3
No, don't take Scatters away without buffing another area please, they're pretty much the only thing keeping Sab viable, and even then it's a push.
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Bstr
07.02.2014 , 02:18 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

We agree that Gunslingers/Snipers need a bit more, as far as PvP survivability is concerned. We are open to hearing the community’s ideas here. Specifically, what would the community like to see done that increases the Gunslinger’s/Sniper’s survivability in PvP without increasing their survivability in PvE?
Usually, the problem is being stunned and killed while stunned. Give Gunslingers / Snipers some damage reduction while stunned. In PvE, you are usually not attacked while stunned too much, but in PvP, most damage comes while you are stunned. Vital Regulators / Cool Under Pressure seems like a good skill to put this ability under.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

It is possible that we might even decide to address the Scatter Bombs issue in a prior update, but would Saboteur/Engineering players want this skill toned down if they are not also receiving an overhaul to the rest of their skill tree with it? Let us know!
Yes, if you increase the damage that Incendiary Grenade / Plasma Probe does.

Both have almost the same cooldown. Incendiary Grenade / Plasma Probe is much easier to use than Scatter Bombs. It also discourages hybrid specs somewhat and does not involve changing more that the 2 skills.

The rest of the rotation and skills are doing fine. Some of us like the long rotation this one has. XS Freighter Flyby / Orbital Strike could use a small buff though in this tree. Maybe Arsonist / Experiment Explosives could increase XS Freighter Flyby / Orbital Strike damage somewhat.
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znihilist
07.02.2014 , 02:23 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DieGhostDie View Post
Edit: Going to re-evaluate my opinion on the three questions later.
I saw what you wrote earlier (I am not calling you out on it btw!), and as much as I don't like what's in yellow there are very strong points in their answer (with exceptions to one or two points). All I hope is that the PvP survivability issue gets sorted out soon and for the new expansion to come before the next world cup.
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Technohic
07.02.2014 , 02:27 PM | #6
I could do without the cheese of scatter bombing people twice in a row; but if you say it can wait until I get something in return, I'd wait.

I actually like Sab as is, personally outside the scatter bomb thing. It's clunky if you try to put everything in some sort of rotation which probably is ideal for DPS performance for PvE players, but I just don't use it like that I guess. All about the set up for burst for me. Maybe if I lived long enough to set up...

Either way, I think i will be happy so long as slinger/sniper both keep their identity with cover. I love the cover system for a ranged class to give a reason to take a knee or go prone to "aim" in a sense rather than run around kiting.
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TopAceOfEarth
07.02.2014 , 02:36 PM | #7
The parses that the best players can do, show the sniper at the bottom of all classes now. (not counting Eng for ops)

Is a shield twice per Boss fight worth between 100 and 500 DPS under the best of circumstances?

Both Marksman and Lethality could use a slight buff to get at least somewhat closer to the other classes imho. Marksman aoe especially is kinda sad.

PvP Damage -> Some sort of reduced dmg while stunned would help a lot for survivability in PvP.
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Draylek
07.02.2014 , 02:39 PM | #8
In a nutshell:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[G]roup leaders still prefer a Gunslinger/Sniper. Gunslingers/Snipers still bring a lot of utility and survivability to a group. [E]ven if we increase Gunslinger/Sniper sustained damage output, the increase would not be very substantial.
Ah, these are not the issues we are looking for? Another perception problem, eh?
1) Because reasons, right? 2) Likewise, the utility and survivability make up for the sub-par DPS because reasons? 3) Thank you very much.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
We do not have any plans regarding Gunslinger/Sniper survivability in PvP.
Thank you very much.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
In the expansion after Galactic Strongholds.
RotHC was released in April 2013. GSF was released 10 months later in February 2014. GS (planned and developed in parallel with GSF) was supposed to come 4 months later in June, but was postponed until August, 6 months later. So, in the best case scenario, this putative next expansion will be released anywhere between December 2014 (wishful thinking since none is planned) and June 2015 (more likely, possibly later)? Meaning the community will have to wait, oh, just another 5-11 months for you to resolve a problem which you identified way back in the last QA round? Again, thank you very much.

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VaticanWarlock
07.02.2014 , 02:44 PM | #9
How many of you snipers would give up your "Utility" to have the orbital strike back?

Thanks for letting us know the class will still suck 6 months from now, guess its better than the assassin that sucked for 2 years.

GG snipers it was fun ride.

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
07.02.2014 , 02:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Draylek View Post
Ah, these are not the issues we are looking for? Another perception problem, eh?
1) Because reasons, right? 2) Likewise, the utility and survivability make up for the sub-par DPS because reasons? 3) Thank you very much.
It does make sense though, even with the dps difference guilds are still running 3 snipers 1 mara configuration to down content. And the funny part is, these guilds (without naming) are accused of taking the easy way in PvE. Do I need to go and start counting guild that are as well running with 4+ snipers in their 16-man OPs ?


Edit: Just to be clear, I do think they need the buff.
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