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Tomb of Sorrows Going for Server 1st NiM DF Brontes Kill

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Server Forums > Begeren Colony
Tomb of Sorrows Going for Server 1st NiM DF Brontes Kill

ZooMzy's Avatar

06.27.2014 , 10:06 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
My advice was unsolicited, so I take no offense if it is dismissed. It is worth noting, however, that we didn't initially enter into this thread seeking to troll, as we normally do.
Of course, I didn't take your initial post as an attempt to troll at all. I merely wanted to clarify that having done the homework and studying the fight from multiple clears already, this information was known to us. So I did my best to dismiss it without a show of disrespect, but because Thor was expecting a brown noser from me, he apparently got upset and claimed I displayed arrogance.

Thus, I decided to fight back and the fun began.

Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
From my own observations (dating back to HM EC), the bulk of the time spent in progression raiding is devoted to discovering and experimenting with mechanics, and formulating a sound approach that maximizes the effectiveness of the raid group composition.

Judging from your previous entries, it looks as though you've already formulated a strategy, no? That means you've gone through the fight enough times for each member of the group to know how their class should be maximally effective vis a vis the fight mechanics. Assuming the talent is there, the execution should be straightforward.
Again, the best analogy I can place to this is "there is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path".

Unfortunately, our team is not a "true progression team" as we do homework and study most fights from YT videos, Dulfy guides, and other clears before actually taking a chance at tackling the content. Our team formed up in the dust of the progression race, as many guilds had already made full clears of the content we were progressing in because of the current time frame we were in whenever the team for ToS was completed.

By the time NiM DF had a few weeks left in its buff, our team was still in HM DF and DP, grinding out set bonus pieces for players and then having to grind out even more gear for their replacements (we have gone through a multitude of people quitting/replaced over burnouts, inability to meet standards needed, deciding the type of raiding wasn't for them, and even the usual drama between a group of people being unable to cooperate together). The only progression we managed to get in for buffed NiM DF was one night on Draxus for 2 hours, making it to wave 6 before deciding our best approach had to be the 5 DPS and 1 tank strat to burn him out of the wave asap, never having a chance to try it again before 2.8 hit.

So while you guys do progression as "true raiders", our team does not. I look more into video clears to grasp the fight as best I can, taking note of phases and the overall challenge presented in each area of the fight to assign direct responsibilities to others. Then determining where each of our members in our team are going to succeed, such as my detailing of how 2 MM snipers and a Carnage Marauder shine better in clockwork phase because of burst potential, while Madness sin is going to be a little bit weaker from the lack of burst capabilities (made the swap to Deception because our DPS was not performing up to par).

As you put more detail in below, the problem is indeed having people execute the responsibilities assigned to them. Just because the solution is simple doesn't mean the problem is easy to solve.

Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
You stated the problem was execution. I really don't see how that's a "problem" in the sense that there is an immediately applicable solution. If you've made all the tweaks to your strat, and after about an hour's worth of raiding are still not consistently getting past the six finger phase, then it seems to me that your current group simply doesn't have the collective talent for this fight. So I guess, the applicable solution would be to look for qualified players. Good luck finding that on BC. As I've stated in another thread, if you're serious about raiding, go to another server, or given EA/Bioware's lack of commitment to endgame content, play another game. At this point in time, trying to do serious progression raiding on BC in the interests of preserving "community" is a quixotic effort. Attempts and successive failures will of course be met with a generous sense of schadenfreude.

Think I'm wrong? There is a simple way to demonstrate that.
I don't disagree. The only method of developing players is like "leading horses to water". Can't really expect much if no one is willing to admit that the mentality of a casual leads to more disaster in a progression team than any other aspect or flaw, only continue to sit and argue with anyone who is ignorant enough to defend that mentality in competitive environments.

Which, because you're making a point about how fruitless of a task it is, let me go ahead and explain a little bit about myself and how I treat the game, since a lot of people find this to be a quality about me that frustrates them the most. To be honest, I don't actively raid here on BC because I have a duty to make this community thrive for PvE. There is literally only one achievement and loot item in this game that I have ever really sought and had the immense desire to have where I would consider seeking active NiM level raiding, to which I transferred servers and paid 35 million credits to get.

Everything else is a bonus to me. I don't play this game with the intent to stay on top of everyone and to clear the most content, nor to actively follow a belief that somehow, I can turn casuals into the best raiders in the game (which, it is doable, you just have to convert them from casuals into competitive players before you start developing them).

To me, like everything I do in this game, the principle can basically be described as "striving for perfection, yet knowing perfection can never truly be obtained". Why start a race that never ends? Why put forth effort in a situation when failure is guaranteed? Why start something that is never going to end and you'll never reach the goal?

The reason why I do it, just like every other thing in this game competitively, is relatively simple: because it's fun. Because even though perfection can not be achieved, I still enjoy striving for each and every "milestone" and going "as far as I can go".

And if I can't get the support I need to reach those "milestones", then I'd rather stop and go put my focus elsewhere for a time being than completely jump ship just to find people to play with, whether than area be PvP or even RP. At the end of the day, PvE will eventually get easier. One day, NiM Brontes and NiM Dread Council will be about as difficult as SM Soa is right now, where pugs will eventually be able to just faceroll it no problem.

So why focus on downing it now? For server first? For the sake of being able to say you're the best? To gain respect from others whom you will never meet, or to put it in better perspective, never even see?

Nah, better to just gloat about those few things to others to either start a flame war or hopefully rile up the community into action, then doing it for the real purpose: for fun.

Haivon's Avatar

06.27.2014 , 02:50 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by ZooMzy View Post
One day, NiM Brontes and NiM Dread Council will be about as difficult as SM Soa is right now, where pugs will eventually be able to just faceroll it no problem.
I still wipe on SM Soa. It's pretty tough **** tbh.

In fact, SM Soa is so hard it's why you see people going for HM and NiM. 'Cuz they can't handle SM's mechanics.