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Resolve Bar for PvE Content… Must Needed Change...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Resolve Bar for PvE Content… Must Needed Change...

Kingsbount's Avatar


Kingsbount
06.13.2014 , 01:57 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
I dont think he seriously meant you can be perma CC'd by these guys till dead. And, from the way he talks about it Id also guess that he, like a lot of people solo them regularly.

I think the overall point is, the only thing "difficult" about these champs is the amount of CC they have. If, as you said, you bring a friend the fight goes from very annoying to utterly trivial. At no point is it difficult or challenging, its just, "Ok ... that was my last interrupt and I blew my cc break already, I guess Ill just sit here and wait ... little bit more, leeeeettle bit more .. aaaand I can aaaaalmost aaaaattaaaaack ... aaaaaaalmoooooost ... just about there .. wooohooo!!! I got off a DoT!!! And, now Im stunned again."
Exactly.
Damn, there's TOO MANY CC skills they have.
I don't know... Add them HP. Channeled ability to interrupt, but don't make them gods of time and space.

OR

As i said earlyer - add stacking buff providing protection against stuns.
Here simple scheme
First stun - character recieve buff. Next stun duration reduced by 50%
Second stun - stun lasts 50% of time. Stacking buff.
3rd stun - character have full immunity.
"Дебилы, б****дь" (с) Сергей Лавров

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
06.13.2014 , 02:50 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Trying to squeeze out enough dps in-between the cc, knowing when to blow your cc breaker, and when to use your own interrupts, stuns, etc, qualifies as challenging to me. Thats the thing though, I dont find it challenging. Its *easy* and utterly boring.

With the exception of the one on Oricon, there isn't a single H2+ in the entire game that requires much effort to solo, at level, with decent gear. The first time I ever ran Oricon and wiped on the first heroic Champion, I had to "wake up" and pay attention. In my book, this is a good thing.

It should be challenging. It's (as of the moment) the final Heroic in the entire 1-55 quest line. Again, not challenging. Its bioware faking a challenge because they cant be bothered to come up with something actually creative.

I understand that people don't like losing control of their character, and that it takes away from the experience of playing the game (i.e. you're not doing anything when stunned), but this is precisely what makes that encounter difficult. Unless you're overgeared for the Oricon H2+, all that CC will. kill. you.

Which is why you have to use tactics on that encounter. Take you healer's mez off of automatic and control it yourself. Manage your own interrupts and stuns. Use your heroic moment at the opportune moment to reset your own stun. Use your Heroic moment legacy abilities.

I object to any complaint about solo'ing content that was designed for a group. It's like complaining that it's hard to solo a KDY boss because the heal stations don't work.I dont have any problem with content designed for a group being difficult to do solo. I like it like that. I like having to come up with interesting ways to do things, or being forced to play at my absolute limit to get through something. What I have a problem with is Bioware's philosophy on what qualifies as 'challenging group content.'
Right now, their method for creating a challenging encounter involves throwing a whole bunch of CC and physics effects at you. I dont find this fun or entertaining. I also dont find it challenging. I find it simply annoying. And, from what I have seen here or in conversations with guild mates or other people, nobody else finds it enjoyable either. And yet, bioware keeps putting more in.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.13.2014 , 02:59 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Thats the thing though, I dont find it challenging. Its *easy* and utterly boring.
You make it seem like the Champion does very little damage and doesn't have much health. That all he does is stun you a bunch of times. And that all you have to do is do a bit of damage in between stuns and everything is fine.

You're misrepresenting that fight. Try running it as a dps in 156 gear. Terminate will take 50% of your health off in a single hit. And it is cast while you're stunned from the electric surge. If you make mistakes during that fight you will die.

It's far from easy, unless you've vastly overgeared it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
What I have a problem with is Bioware's philosophy on what qualifies as 'challenging group content.'
Then you should be asking for fights to be harder, not easier.

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
06.13.2014 , 03:48 PM | #44
Well, at this point Im pretty much convinced you arent actually reading what anyone says and are just skimming till you find something that, when way out of context, can be construed as meaning what you want it to mean for the purposes of youre little crusade... So, yeah, have fun with that. Im not going to explain myself for the umpteenth time to someone who plainly isnt listening.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.13.2014 , 04:00 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Well, at this point Im pretty much convinced you arent actually reading what anyone says and are just skimming till you find something that, when way out of context, can be construed as meaning what you want it to mean for the purposes of youre little crusade... So, yeah, have fun with that. Im not going to explain myself for the umpteenth time to someone who plainly isnt listening.
I was about to try and explain to you that I don't really have a crusade here.

But then I noticed that after you claimed the fight was both "easy" and "boring", and I countered with some facts, your response contained mostly insults.

So I'm guessing you were exaggerating and/or lying to make your point.

CaliOrion's Avatar


CaliOrion
06.13.2014 , 04:34 PM | #46
Honestly, while I hate getting into stun-knockback-stun-pull-stun.... I also love it. Variety in my content is important. I don't want everything to feel the same; it's a good thing to me when there are enemies that make everyone in the group go "kill this ***** first because ***** him and his ************* knockbacks."

- GIVE ME BACK MY ORBITAL STRIKE -
No, seriously, I'm still bitter about this.

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
06.13.2014 , 05:59 PM | #47
I dont know why Im doing this, especially after I just said that I saw absolutely no point in trying, but, here I am.

You countered with your opinion. I have solo'd the first story heroic so far on just about every char Ive done oricon with. Except, I think, my sorc because I was doing it with a couple of guildmates and my gunslinger because we were doing it and other things *fast* to round out some of his gear for a 16 man HM DF run later. With the exception of those two, every other one has been done in basic 156 junk with a lot of level 50 (rating 146/150) mods and enhancements because they were just better. I confess to usually buying at least a couple level 53 implants, or crafting the lesser level 54 ones.

I never felt challenged. I was just bored and annoyed because "Yep, here we go again, stunned, etc, ok, now I can actually play again instead of sitting here passively observing."

Youre sitting here telling me that "No, Dras, your opinion is invalid because I think that stuff is hard, therefore, it is hard and you are wrong for thinking that is it not hard, so you must be lying to try to make yourself look better. ... blah blah blah."

CC chaining and interrupting in order to avoid the same thing happening to you is easy, whether your a 39k HP, End minimised DPS, or some bloke fresh off of Makeb. Furthermore, its just as annoying whether youre that super geared person or the other poor unfortunate.

The point of all of this is .... and Ive been saying it this entire time .... Bioware seems to think that overloading a fight with CC and physics makes it difficult. It doesnt. It makes it annoying, tedious, and boring.

If you dont agree with me, whatever, youre entitled to your opinion. Maybe you dont have my pvp background. Maybe a lot of things. Maybe, inexplicably to me, you just like it.

This whole thing could have gone "Well, Gee! I happen to like having to avoid and deal with a ton of CC and physics effect in an otherwise trivial fight. I even find it fun and entertaining." And I could have said, "Ok, I dont understand you, but go forth and have fun since Bioware seems to be catering this just for you."

Instead its been all kinds of "No, youre WRONG! Youre a LIAR! Thats not true! Thats impossible!" You were so focused on "being right on the internet" that you repeatedly completely missed the point of what I and that other fellow were trying to say.

Simply, that CC and physics add an un-fun and annoying level of artificial difficulty to a fight. Furthermore, despite a ton of people also thinking this way, Bioware seems to default to:

Creative Director -"Hmm, well Design Team, we need a capstone mission for this planet. It needs to have ... you know, a certain something. It needs to be challenging, so that people think 'Golly, I just fought my way though Hell, and conquered it, and now, I have to kill the Devil himself."

Design Team - *whispers and muted conversation for a couple minutes* "Soo, how about some CC?"

Creative Director - "Hey! CC! We havent done that since the time right before this one! Great idea!"

Design Team - "Yeah, and, just to spice it up a bit, we could add even MORE CC!"

Creative Director - "Holy cow, Design Team! You guys are really worth every penny!"

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.13.2014 , 06:24 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
... <lotsa stuff> ...
Fair enough. You've clarified things pretty well, I appreciate it.

I realize that the point you specifically are trying to make is "do something else than CC to make the fights hard"

And I don't have a problem with this. Frankly, I'm not particularly trying to argue with you specifically. But I noticed that there are precious few posts in this thread that are saying "here's how to make the fights better" other than one post from Kingsbount which mentions "Add HP" which, is even less inspired than "add CC".

Then there are other posters (not you) that say such things as:
Quote: Originally Posted by theSCARAYone View Post
I see what you're saying but the real solution is to remove all stuns, roots, knockbacks, pulls, mez's and slows from trash mobs(I would even argue dots) There is no reason for any of them to have any of these things.
This is a player who is asking for something that would make PvE even more E-Z mode than it already is. Remove DoTs as well? Oy vei.

The only reason I object to the request to remove CC from fights like Oricon's H2+, is that it isn't accompanied by any specific suggestions about how to make the fights better. Just a generic "Bioware devs have no imagination".

So how it comes across to me is, "make the fights easier"

Way back, I spent several months in a thread about HM LI trying to argue that it wasn't too hard, that it didn't need to be nerfed, even going so far as to offer to take people through it and teach them how to run it.

In the end, I lost. Not only was HM LI nerfed, but the entire concept of "Tier 1" PvE content and "Tier 2" PvE content was completely thrown out the window with 2.0.

More recently, the five newest FPs are all tacticals, and the three newest don't even have HM versions.

So please understand, I'm a bit sore on the subject of people asking for things to be easier.

It's not that I'm desperate for CCs, or that I enjoy being stunned. But based on the track record, my belief is all this thread could accomplish is making content easier, instead of replacing CC with something actually challenging.

/shrug

Petnil's Avatar


Petnil
06.13.2014 , 06:52 PM | #49
Beeing a tank i hate uninteruptable cc and imo the use of cc is way overdone in SWTOR. Give the mobs something else. Let them yell for help or run to the closest friend when they get low on hp. Let them play smart and cc the healer for a change instead of allways the tank/melee dps. Give them cleaves and let them enrage when their friends die. Just something that's not another cc.

The only time i think the cc was clever implemented in a fight was the Cademimu ? Rocket boss on heroic. That shackle is deadly in a bad group but it can be countered quite easy if you got a half decent group. It's not like in some FP's when i charge a group and before i get 1 hit in i'm stunned. (solution is let the silly sentinel charge in first)
The boss with that droid you need to cc s also Cademimu i think, also a good use of cc in a bossfight.

It's not like there's an abundance of good tanks in SWTOR and all this cc and knockbacks doesn't make tanking anymore fun.

I'm not sure resolve is the right fix for this problem. It doesn't fix the problem with tanks getting instantly cc'ed the second they pull. Maybe a resolve bar + some short imunitybuff for tanks when they enter combat. Lets at least get a couple of attacks of before were cc'ed.

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
06.13.2014 , 07:55 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Petnil View Post
Beeing a tank i hate uninteruptable cc and imo the use of cc is way overdone in SWTOR. Give the mobs something else. Let them yell for help or run to the closest friend when they get low on hp. Let them play smart and cc the healer for a change instead of allways the tank/melee dps. Give them cleaves and let them enrage when their friends die. Just something that's not another cc.

The only time i think the cc was clever implemented in a fight was the Cademimu ? Rocket boss on heroic. That shackle is deadly in a bad group but it can be countered quite easy if you got a half decent group. It's not like in some FP's when i charge a group and before i get 1 hit in i'm stunned. (solution is let the silly sentinel charge in first)
The boss with that droid you need to cc s also Cademimu i think, also a good use of cc in a bossfight.

It's not like there's an abundance of good tanks in SWTOR and all this cc and knockbacks doesn't make tanking anymore fun.

I'm not sure resolve is the right fix for this problem. It doesn't fix the problem with tanks getting instantly cc'ed the second they pull. Maybe a resolve bar + some short imunitybuff for tanks when they enter combat. Lets at least get a couple of attacks of before were cc'ed.
My main is a Powertech tank. Tanking is, a lot of the time, like watching a game of ping pong where, occasionally, you get to do something. It sucks. Sometimes you literally just get slapped around. Im looking at you, Brontes. Yeah. You.