My Thoughts On Many F2P Players

So many things are glossed over/ingnored... myself and ,any others don't care for PUG raids for multiple reasons:

Undergeared/incorrectly geared/specced participants. Potential to be grouped with known bad players. No one I know cares to spend hours wiping on trash because they ended up grouped with people who can't be bothered to even try to play their class, gear themselves properly, don't listen to tactics, stand there in pools of fire whilst drooling mindlessly...

Another thing people don't take into consideration with group finder is the whole /ignored issue. If someone irritates enough people, they won't get groups in GF because there won't be many the system will let them be grouped with. Half the people I see in fleet chat complaining about nothing popping are the same people I see being obnoxious in chat itself so are probably ignored by a large chunk of the server.

I'm... not sure where you get this unsung heroes and martyr nonsense from? I was arguing that yelling at people to ~do something with their life~ and ~get a job~ instead of spending 20+ hours a month playing a game is classist (and again -- 20 isn't even that much. that's not even an hour a day jfc). Because I think it is and reminds me very much of the "poor people shouldn't have nice things!" attitude you see a lot. ("How dare this poor person scrounge up every cent they could save for months to buy themselves something nice!" You've never seen that? Cause I have, quite a bit.)

And idk, more people to do stuff with makes the game more fun (at least for people that like doing stuff with other people, and since this is an mmo I guess a lot of people playing it like that.), which might make people more likely to sub/stay subbed, and therefore gets bioware money (as well as f2p/preferred players that get the occasional cc and buy stuff of the cm -- might not be as much as a sub, but it's still more than had that person not played.)

I wouldn't begrudge the game had it been able to stay sub only either -- I probably wouldn't be playing because I was very sceptical of even enjoying an MMO in the first place, so I don't think I would have invested the money to try it (shame -- but would have been only my own fault). But as it's f2p, I find looking down at people who use that chance to play it even if they might not have the money to sub/stay subbed for long, or yelling at them to get a job (when there's a good chance they either can't find one or in case of still being in school might not even have the time -- or simply can't afford it anyway/don't think it's worth their money and just wouldn't play otherwise because they prioritize other things) is silly, snobbish and, done in the way the person I had responded to, classist.

Because like you said, they aren't doing anything wrong because the game's business model is what it is, so what's the point of getting up in arms over people taking the chance that business model provides? It's not like subs don't get a lot of stuff for subbing anyway :/ I don't have a lot of money either, but I wouldn't get angry at people who enjoy the game without paying because it allows them to play anyway.

Ninja looting has been around since the first MMORPG hit the internet (NWN on AOL circa 1991).

But people in this thread are either intentionally ignoreing the obvious or oblivious to the obvious that its gotten much much much worse with F2P addition to game.

As one poster pointed out though, its pretty easy to figure out why.

In the old days you valued your online reputation and would be a social outcast removed and black listed from doing content for bad behavior.

Now a days however, you complain about bad behaviour (say someone running through you to steal a chest while you clear mobs) and you get idiotic respons like "Learn to open chests first" completely removing any wrong doing blow back on the kiddies doing the bad behaviour and placing the blame on the innocent party/individual.

Until that mindset of blaming the victim rather then the wrong doer changes, this bad behaviour is only going to increase and multiply.

I know I would switch to a subscriber only server in a heart beat.
Wouldn't even think twice about it
and I guarantee at least 70% of the bad behaviour now a days that you see almost daily now would instantly disappear.

Bad behaviour wasn't created by F2P
There has always been idiots and sadly always will be idiots in gaming and life.
but its become far more frequent with the onset of F2P mixing with subscribers.

OP, sorry but your post is full of prejudice.

Like ppl already said: F2P players didnt created the "money begging" the "ninja mode" and so on.

Actually, it's the people who pay the game that sometimes feel that they have the right to do some bad stuff. Because "they pay the game".

I gave up running 16 man OP's with pugs some time ago (POT5 server) because everybody was going ninja on Arkanian loots, when they had 180 gear on them.

They were all subscribers, had money, guilds to help them, cartel coins, etc. Even so, the "ninja call" is stronger i guess.

Part of the community in this game is a problem, but it doesnt have anything to do with the F2P system. The guy who is a ninja or a beggar, troll or whatever is like this because he is.

It's not a subscription that will rise you above other ppl in terms of education and ethics.

seriously welcome to MMOs, arent only f2p that hit need all the time, are subbers too, there are also guilds that act this way if in their group are ppl that arent in their guilds, i pug Ops all the time and ive seeing it in each run.
Sometimes when u enter in their group, the groupleaders warning u that u will not take any of the loot (seen that too)

Lol I love how ppl always reject the harsh truth,and prefer to life in false sense of security.

What I said before is just a fact - you can still do otherwise but it is counter productive.

Staying in the game for prolonged time without sub is jsut stupid for the reason I allready mentioned.
And dont give me BS about not beeing agle to find a job or naything . Like you need a job at all to get 8$ a month. There are numerous small works you can do for that sort of money, seasonal works etc. Most kids allowances are way above that this days.

If you wish to spend that money on smoking and drinking its your call but it only proves how bad organised you are.
When you play as F2P you waste 2x much time as sub to get the same thing, not to mention how much flustrating that is. And btw if you check statistics you will noticed that average F2P player still spends a lot of money on unlocks etc.

Simple math will tell you the truth.

Option 1
You can play for 1000 hours as F2P to get - 1000X*

Option 2
or you can play 500 hours as sub to get - 1000X*
work/ do small jobs to get money for 200 hours to pay fr the sub and still have additional money left
and you have 300 hours of free time more !

* X - a fictional value of progress you make in game (ie how much you achived playig the game)

U loose as F2P everytime ! Money + Free time + flustration. Its simple mathmatics ....
And plz dont make up extreame examples jsut to prove me wrong - my thesis aplyies to general mayority, weird cases dont prove anything.

And ofc - people who will pick option 1 can still have fun. Like ppl still enjoy eating Icecream worth 1 $ they bought for 5$. Its just they were foolish.

I still expect ppl to object to what i said - after all ppl this days have big problem thinking logicly ...

But its not my problem do what you want - just dont beg and exploit subbed ppl to boost you since you are "poor".

(and yeah - my words are harsh and merciless - but they must be - I dont mean to offend F2P ppl just show them how pointless that is. Everyone have fun whatever you do. )

What a pile of dung. If someone chooses to be F2P, what gives you the right to criticize them for it?

Let's see...

What I get from your posts is this: People who choose F2P, in your opinion, are childish, irresponsible, stupid and foolish and deserve to be ridiculed.

Your words are harsh and merciless. But they are also thoughtless and offensive. Especially since F2P's can only read the forums, and have no way to defend themselves against people like you.

As many have stated, this is a person thing, not a subscriber or non-subscriber thing. It was there in SWG (sub based only), it's there in WoW, it was there in Rift before F2P, and was even there in DCUO before they went hybrid and were subscription based only.

Gone are the days of the EQ1 era where people worked together as a community, cared about their reputation in game, and a blacklist actually meant something.

That was also back in the era where MMOs required grouping and working together to accomplish most things in-game. Once MMOs became primarily solo-experiences except for the occasional leveling dungeon or end-game raid, there was no longer any need for a sense of community or building in-game friendships like before.

This, thank you.

Seriously, what the hell? If f2p is good enough for the person who chooses to play that way and they either really can't afford the sub, or don't see their enjoyment from the game improving enough to justify subbing, who are you the say they're being stupid? Goodness, it's not your time that's spent.

And um...... idk, but someone spending their money on clothes they need doesn't sound like "drinking and smoking" to me, so I'll continue to be perfectly happy to be the one paying for them :/ Pulling that nonsense about what f2pers might spend their (potentially limited) funds on really doesn't make it any better, especially since your suggestion of what it is seems to be chosen specifically to make the people you're ridiculing look bad. (honestly, ever heard of living expenses? And on that note, ever considered the idea that things don't work the same way everywhere and don't cost the same thing everywhere?)

Well said.

Nevermind, too, that while I am a subscriber here, and I know several people that play MMOs as F2P tiers and end up spending way more in most months than I do with my $15/mo.

Some people just don't like the "I have to play" mentality that a subscription causes in them, but yet will spend readily in the cash shops for the games they enjoy.

Yes, there are those who play for free and won't spend on the game. I'll admit, Neverwinter is the only such game for me. I like it, but refuse to spend in the cash shop for it at the prices PWE expects for items. But for people to assume that all F2P players are freeloaders, is just wrong.

That's like using the "WoW Kiddie" term nowadays, when in fact that generation of MMO player are all now well into their 20's, through college, and many already started families.