Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

T2 Scout Offensive Abilities Roundtable

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
T2 Scout Offensive Abilities Roundtable

Asbetos's Avatar


Asbetos
05.23.2014 , 02:13 AM | #31
I think the simplest solution that would take care of both offensive (not directly) and defensive (directly) problems on a cattlescout would be to add something that reduces defensive capabalities to BO and TT. Something like -50% shield power pool or -50% evasion. Lore description for that could be "Ship cannons are drawing more power than usual resulting in reduced shield power pool".

Goal: let them have the offensive power, but if someone looks at them funny while they're using it... bubye cattlescout. I believe that would make them think much better when they're going to use those CDs.
The Progenitor
Darth Xinthos Skykiller <Retaliation>
Captain Zyka Skykiller <Sons of Anarchy>

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
05.23.2014 , 03:54 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Asbetos View Post
I think the simplest solution that would take care of both offensive (not directly) and defensive (directly) problems on a cattlescout would be to add something that reduces defensive capabalities to BO and TT. Something like -50% shield power pool or -50% evasion. Lore description for that could be "Ship cannons are drawing more power than usual resulting in reduced shield power pool".

Goal: let them have the offensive power, but if someone looks at them funny while they're using it... bubye cattlescout. I believe that would make them think much better when they're going to use those CDs.
I think it's a terrible idea.

The purpose of a system ability is to have a "plus" when using it. Adding such a drawback so that it's neutral completely defeats the initial purpose.

Asbetos's Avatar


Asbetos
05.23.2014 , 06:25 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
I think it's a terrible idea.

The purpose of a system ability is to have a "plus" when using it. Adding such a drawback so that it's neutral completely defeats the initial purpose.
It is a plus, such a huge plus that requires a minus or we end up with a discussion like this 1 (and many more across the board). I think a change like this would cause players to actually plan and think about the usage of those abilities instead of just "oh look, enemy player... pop CD -> pew pew -> move on like nothing happened"
The Progenitor
Darth Xinthos Skykiller <Retaliation>
Captain Zyka Skykiller <Sons of Anarchy>

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
05.23.2014 , 06:43 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
What he wants to say -I believe- is that an actual shotgun in a game shouldn't be single target with accuracy checks. It should be an AoE with diminished damage according to both range and how much of centered the target his (the grazing thing).
I wish people would stop putting any stock into what the game descriptions read. The BLC description was probably written by the exact same person that decided to call scouts "scouts" despite the fact that out of all three sub-types not one of they actually behaves as a scout, and probably the same guy that decided to cast the strike as the best dogfighter in the game. The written descriptions are only there to create lore continuity and have literally no bearing on how the components are designed.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
05.23.2014 , 07:32 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
I wish people would stop putting any stock into what the game descriptions read. The BLC description was probably written by the exact same person that decided to call scouts "scouts" despite the fact that out of all three sub-types not one of they actually behaves as a scout, and probably the same guy that decided to cast the strike as the best dogfighter in the game. The written descriptions are only there to create lore continuity and have literally no bearing on how the components are designed.
False. The BLC is very clearly supposed to be GSF's statistical approximation of an FPS shotgun.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
05.23.2014 , 08:23 AM | #36
The burst laser cannon is clearly supposed to be shotgun like, yes.

Also I dispute that "lore continuity" means nothing. Railguns have long range, scouts have really good maneuvering, and strike fighters have access to weapons with longer ranges. They clearly were informed by "lore" when designing. Where things got hairy is development, and in that phase they introduced some troubling balance issues that we still see today.




Many of the posts in this thread are really not useful. We have worthless crap such as "remove burst laser cannon" and calls to delete the cattlescout.

Which is a shame, because the OP has solid ideas. I agree with him that the core issue is the burst abilities, and I will DISAGREE with the common assumption that Targeting Telemetry is not causing issues on the type 1 scout. It's certainly true that most type 1 scouts are terrible, as a result of it being one of the two ships that twoshippers ship with, but a variant on the quads and pods build of the type 2 scout is still capable of subsecond kills- lasers (or LLC if you are crazy) plus pods plus TT plus concentrated fire is still enough damage to warrant consideration of the power of these abilities.


I would prefer to see these abilities designed to be a bit more interesting than just "click to kill" anyway. The idea where BO needs to be pooled to work is fine, but I'd go the otherway- make it very good at letting you hold down the button but without as much of a benefit to the shots. The 33% haste, 8% crit, and 10% damage all stack together multiplicatively- your blaster damage goes up by over 50% during this, and if you run CF it's like almost an 80% increase in blaster damage. TT is less of a boost BUT also applies to pod hits and crits and is very very fatal as well.

What if these numbers were just... smaller? You could compensate in other ways to keep systems interesting, but I just think that the whole power of this button is too great.

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
05.23.2014 , 08:25 AM | #37
Wow, you really ARE upset about this! Let's keep this trainwreck going, shall we?

Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
For the love of god, is separating a quote into blocks to damn hard for people? "Too". And at this point, I'm just replying in this format to further agitate you! Besides, this is almost easy.


wat
BLC at <500m is 123% accuracy, at 500m to 3000m it has 93% accuracy and at 3000 to 4000m it has a staggering 78% accuracy.
Every single primary weapon in the game has better accuracy than BLC at ranges >500m, the only exception is RFL and that's only for 500m to 3000m. Reading comprehension, my friend. Reading comprehension. At 115% base, BLC is the most accurate at close range by 5%.



Again WTH are you talking about. Every weapon in the game counts as a full hit no matter if its a graze or not. I will also point out the extreme accuracy is the only way you can hit anything at close ranges because of the weird tracking penalty behaviors that occur at extreme close range.Cite them. What do you believe is happening? Perhaps a profound lack of understanding is the cause of your pain? -bp

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
05.23.2014 , 08:40 AM | #38
Quote:
I will DISAGREE with the common assumption that Targeting Telemetry is not causing issues on the type 1 scout. It's certainly true that most type 1 scouts are terrible, as a result of it being one of the two ships that twoshippers ship with, but a variant on the quads and pods build of the type 2 scout is still capable of subsecond kills- lasers (or LLC if you are crazy) plus pods plus TT plus concentrated fire is still enough damage to warrant consideration of the power of these abilities.
I accept this hypothesis as plausible.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
05.23.2014 , 09:11 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Many of the posts in this thread are really not useful. We have worthless crap such as "remove burst laser cannon" and calls to delete the cattlescout.

I agree with him that the core issue is the burst abilities, and I will DISAGREE with the common assumption that Targeting Telemetry is not causing issues on the type 1 scout. It's certainly true that most type 1 scouts are terrible, as a result of it being one of the two ships that twoshippers ship with, but a variant on the quads and pods build of the type 2 scout is still capable of subsecond kills- lasers (or LLC if you are crazy) plus pods plus TT plus concentrated fire is still enough damage to warrant consideration of the power of these abilities.
I can accept this theory.
But, do you disagree that the weapon supposedly asked to be removed (BLC) is too much currently ?

Depending on your opinion :

1 - In the case you're agreeing, wouldn't it be better to first consider the cannon that is especially too good compared to other and then see if the premise still stands after putting it in line with others ?

2 - In the case you're disagreeing, don't you fear that, even if reduced to account QLC and LLC with pods, the burst system abilities will still make BLC too bursty, since you agree that burst is the core of the problem ?

Magira's Avatar


Magira
05.23.2014 , 03:29 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Which is a shame, because the OP has solid ideas. I agree with him that the core issue is the burst abilities, and I will DISAGREE with the common assumption that Targeting Telemetry is not causing issues on the type 1 scout. It's certainly true that most type 1 scouts are terrible, as a result of it being one of the two ships that twoshippers ship with, but a variant on the quads and pods build of the type 2 scout is still capable of subsecond kills- lasers (or LLC if you are crazy) plus pods plus TT plus concentrated fire is still enough damage to warrant consideration of the power of these abilities.
Do I look that way. Rather, it is such that Blackbolt by the Engine Power Converter has more mobility and is faster and more often at the opponent.

I fly my Blackbolt with lasers, pods, TT and CF and make significantly more kills than with my Sting with almost the same setting. (Quads instead of lasers)

Even Sting with burst laser and cluster is clearly inferior.

The problem is the combination of TT and CF, I think, and as more CF than TT.
Einistra - Assasin/Pilot Guild : PUG / Ynaxi - Shadow/Pilot Server: Red Eclipse
Ainola - Powertech/Pilot Server: The Bastion
Lilora - Sage/Pilot Server: The Ebon Hawk
Pomsta - Assasin/Pilot Server: T3-M4