Are Tanks Obsolete Outside of Operations?

Yuun is a useless moron.

He uses aim/tech gear and half his damage abilities are boosted by willpower/force

Broken would sum him up.

This leaves HK (single target only), Jorgan (aoe and single but casts a lot and has 0 pushback protection) or Tanno (tank or inferior dps option).

Troopers have worse companion DPS options with the melee dps specialist gimped.

I've tried many times to duel a Kira with my Tanno using my own gear. Massive gear advantage on Tanno and he loses every time. HK is rubbish for packs and Jorgans pushback is extremely annoying.

I have to ask, if you're a tank using Jorgan as your DPS companion, why do you care about his pushback? You should be tanking all the damage anyway.

These are all good suggestions for fixing gear/reward issues for established tank players. Do you truly believe that shuffling prime requisite stats would entice players who don't tank to become tanks? Because that's what we're discussing here.

I submit that the responsibilities and stigmas associated with the art and science of tanking, be it actual or perceived, is the real barrier of entry. The responsibilities are obvious - and numerous - including party leadership and being experienced enough to explain boss fights. That means study and preparation. Splash one barrier of entry for casuals who simply want to play.

The stigmas encompass quite a few areas, but begins (I think) with having to put up ***hole "go ... Go! GO!!!" dps types who turn wipes into an artform and make life miserable for everyone who isn't dps. That and what I consider to be a negative mass market media bombardment effect ... chat LFGs. "Must be geared" ... "Must know fights" ... Must have Vent/TS/Mumble..." In essence the message is plain and clear for players who might be thinking about learning the craft ... "Newbs aren't welcome."

How does that get fixed? Nerf the tanking system? If tanking gets dumbed down, then the real tanking community would get their panties in a wad. Maybe even leave the game for one that embraces true tanking prowess.

I don't see a fix here except for a perception change. The haves would have none of that. So it looks like we're stuck.

I think fixing the gear would go a longer way to fixing the issue than you think. Even if you're curious to try out being a tank, it pretty much shuts you out from the beginning. Maybe you want to just try it out, or keep a separate set of gear just in case. Too bad EVERYTHING that you could get for comms is crap. The mods are crap, the enhancements are crap, there are no defense/shield enhancements, the only defense mods are on the bracers and belt, the earpieces are crap, and the implants have accuracy (or alacrity, I don't care to remember). What you come out with after a full suiting up of comm gear is an absorb heavy, endurance heavy, crappy tank with a bunch of accuracy and alacrity in almost all your pieces. Every single piece will need to be replaced to be taken seriously. Even the drops from flashpoints are pretty much all crap too.

The only way to get anything worth a damn is to do operations, and how many people do you think are going to want to start their tanking career at the operation level?

I believe the only way to get more tanks is to make it easier for players to fill the tank role.

Some players will never want to tank regardless of whatever changes are made, but I know I would tank more if I didn't need to acquire two separate gear sets and could easily change between tank and dps specs.

Right now I have a Shadow at 55 speced and geared to tank, along with a Vanguard, Assassin, and Guardian at 55, all speced and geared to dps.

I also have a leveling Juggernaut and PT sub 55, again speced and geared to dps.

So right now as someone who enjoys the tanking role, I have five character which could help provide tanks to groups, but don't because of the hassle of gearing them twice while filling a role which many players don't want to perform because of the leadership required and the potential of having to deal with bad or obnoxious players.

And no, I'm not at all selfish. Selfish are those that feel it is fine to require tanks to gear twice (and deal with the crappy itemization from Bioware) or gimp their own solo play just to help lead groups and perform a role which many do not want to perform while at the same time feeling it is fine to belittle tanks or make their job more difficult.

tl;dr: I'll gladly take the leadership role and deal with bad or obnoxious players as a tank, but not at the expense of gearing twice / carrying two sets of gear.

The barrier of entry into tanking has nothing to do with gear because experienced players who are thinking about leveling a tank know that armoring, mods, enhancements & augments can all be swapped out for whatever they want ... all the way through end game.

I have zero problems using comms to gear up a leveling tank. Zero. What I can't find at a comm vendor I make or buy off the GTN. Imperfect gear stats is NOT what's keeping players from queueing as tanks imho.

Carrying 2 sets of gear for a dual-purpose character is pretty much a given in any trinity-based system. Unless you want to tank in DPS gear or DPS in tank gear, having a character that can play dual roles requires specific gear for each role. Could always gear as a hybrid tweener I suppose.

Though I agree that filling a role which many players don't want to perform because of the leadership required and the potential of having to deal with bad or obnoxious players has a LOT to do with why there are so few players queueing as tanks.

No it's not. I don't mean to Rocket Punch a dead bantha here, but WoW has basically made DPS and Tank stats synonymous (the benefit switches by Spec / Stance).

Optimal stat distributions differ between all specs (eg, a Tank may want full Mastery while a DPS wants full Haste), but it's nothing like SWTOR currently, where attempting to do anything but Tank in full Tank gear is basically deleting like 50% of the stats off your gear.

Likewise outside maybe HM FPs, Tanking in DPS gear is basically taking a pish on your healers.

Nothing you do while leveling matters here, because DPS-spec Sages can tank leveling FPs.

What "experienced" players do is irrelevant for the vast majority of players in any MMO.

Leveling content has no bearing on this discussion because no one cares how many Tanks are in-queue during leveling content. In fact, people are likely to stop tanking once they're done grinding levels and realize that DPS gear + Field Respec + Tank Stance isn't cutting it any more.

Having to accumulate in the first place a proud, but meaningless outside Main Tanking, set of gear, keep it upgraded, augmented, etc —

It's like saying:

• "We need more people to join the military. We don't have enough soldiers. Nobody wants to stand on the front lines and be shot at."
• "Sir, I know. Let's require people to buy their own combat armor, supply pack, military-grade weaponry, and ATVs and hold it to exacting standards of quality. This will make them feel proud and dedicated to the job of being a soldier."
• "Give this man a field promotion!"

... And then wondering why you have so few soldiers. Since we can't forcibly draft Tanks (lol, just imagine), the next best solution is the modern recruitment method: bribery.

Make it easy to enlist, promise rewards for enlisting, give people the tools they need to do the job correctly. You're still only ~50% of the way to a successful Tank, but that's 50% closer than most players will ever bother coming, and you really need to dangle the biggest possible carrot you can for this role.

Not having played WoW, I'm unsure as to how this would work in TOR.

Do you mean, switching from Plasma Cell to Ion Cell, a Vanguard's +Accuracy, +Power and +Surge gear would become +Defense, +Shield and +Absorb gear automatically?