ETA on Advanced Class change?

The length of time that welfare has been in existence has zero reflection on the time that a person is eligible for welfare.

Welfare has been around for decades. If someone loses their job tomorrow, is it better for that person to expect the government to solve their problem of no income by expecting to collect welfare or for that person to take the initiative to find a new job?

The specifics may be different, but the principle is the same. In one case, that person expects someone else to solve their problem and in the other they take the initiative to solve their problem themselves.

What has welfare and jobs and government got to do with a game that should be providing a sense of fun and escapism away from those mundanities of real life?
AC swap has no impact on you if you want to level up another character.
But, if you want to stay playing with your friends and engaging in end game content it is a convenience feature that substitutes a small donation for your time.

Still hoping for a dev response, met a GM in-game but forgot to ask.

People sometimes forget what they really want.

Whether you talk about a game or real life, certain principles apply to both. One of those principles, IMO, is that some things should be earned and not simply handed out.

I am not in favor of allowing the creation of max level characters with all companions at max level affection with all companion unlocks, all chosen crew skills at 450 and BIS gear. It would be a "time saving convenience" if they allowed the creation of such characters, though, would it not?

Why can that person not continue playing with their friends and engaging in end game content on the character that they leveled while they use time not spent engaging in end game content to actually level the new class (AC) that they now want to play?

It is NOT a case of one or the other, necessarily. As has been stated many times previously, there is NO time limit on leveling. BW is NOT going to delete that new character if it does not reach max level within a certain time.

Most of the friends I have will even help to level that new character. Double XP weekends and XP boosts make it even easier to level that new class (AC).

In other words you feel an infringement on your investment of time and personal validation from those that want to have fun... in a game... shocking
And again, 'simply handed out' is pure overstatement. Few of those seriously discussing the merits of an AC swap feature feel it should be free. And they would still only have a single character, a person who wanted to take the time to level an alt of the same class would have two characters with all the benefits that brings.
Hey, lets jump in with a worst case scenario, more hyperbole and overstatement!
The game has a hybrid model with a cartel (cash) shop as a central point. The basic theory behind this is get the players in for free and maybe they'll stick around long enough to spend a few coins on unlocks and fluffy stuff.
There are gamers out there that will play through the story content to 50 (pretty much the limit at which class story goes to) and then role another class or just leave without having spent a penny on the game.
Levelling companion affection is simple as is crew skills.
BiS gear doesn't really break the game as long as it is only 'Best in Sot' and not 'Better than Best in Slot'. I wouldn't really care for it that much, but it wouldn't rock my fragile little world if they did. I survived the period a while back where crafters could craft BiS mods just fine and look how much they gouged the market for. Now, at least the best crafters can put out is one tier below BiS (and still at ludicrously high prices). I wouldn't really want to see BiS mods in the cartel market, not because it is a short cut but because it would destroy the crafting community and those guys and gals have precious little to hold onto as it is.
As for a Max level character, I'd say allowing a player to purchase a character to level 50 is fair, after all they could play to that level for free anyway. As for the story they bypass, put 3 default settings in at purchase (Light/Grey/Dark) that sets the story choices to those defaults. Then the player has to purchase 'Rise of the Hutt Cartel' as a standalone purchase or unlocked through one months sub to advance to 55.

In my experience it's because at end game the character does not work as they thought it would. Either from the game mechanics or the subjective experience of the player. It's hard enough to get a group of my friends online at the best of times, I'd rather they all enjoyed themselves going through an HM FP or OP rather than feel they are obligated to play a character they hate because other wise the group couldn't play.
Many of my friends play other games, have other time commitments, are attached to their character and just want access to the other roles and have no desire to go through the levelling process again.
No there is no time on levelling. But, the vast majority of adults have other time commitments, that are more pressing than playing through the same story because of artificial restrictions on AC flexibility.
Yeah. That's so much fun. Facerolling content because a level 55 is running content with you. Not to mention overlevelling the content because of massive XP boosts. If you are so keen to bypass the core levelling experience (the story and choices) in these ways why is it so offensive when someone wishes to pay Bioware a small amount to allow them access to the other AC on a class they have already put some time into?

It is still expecting somebody else (in this case, BW) to solve a perceived "problem" rather than actually takin the initiative to solve that problem for themselves. As I said, IMO, the latter should be encouraged and the former should not. That type of enabling, even in a video game, only reinforces the "GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!" attitude that seems to be so prevalent these days.

So, you're ok with allowing people to buy a new class, but not BIS gear or max level characters? Why is one ok, and the others not? After all, they are both just conveniences that allow people to bypass effort to which they are averse.


Here we have the crux of the issue, an aversion to effort. I know there's a word that fits.

It really does not take that long to level a new character, especially if those friends help. You can claim that it is difficult to get everyone together at one time, but it seems to be no problem for something requiring effort to which they are not averse.


The inability to change one's class in other games is ok, but in this game the restriction on class changing is "artificial"? That restriction was put in place by the devs.

Any game has rules set in place by the designer(s)/developer(s) of that game. Is it an "artificial" rule that I have to pay a luxury tax in Monopoly when I land on that space? Is it an "artificial" rule that a flush beats a straight in poker? Is it an "artificial" rule that

If a player leveled an mercenary, they did NOT put the time into the powertech class. They put the time into the bounty hunter STORY. Once again, by your own admission, if you do a /who on the fleet you will see the vast majority of characters in the bounty hunter story line over level 10 will show a CLASS of mercenary or powertech, NOT bounty hunter.

I never said I was keen to bypass the core leveling experience. I simply said that the leveling process could be made faster by getting friends to help with that process, or using the XP boosts and double XP weekends.

When my friends help me level, we will run with characters fairly close to the same level. We all have characters spread out from level 1 to 55.

Quite a few of the gamers I know are put off by the old grind mentality and time sink aspects of the MMO style. Some of that is justified, although with SWTOR I feel most of the enjoyment and Star Wars is to be found in the Class stories. Personally I see two sets of gamers in MMOs these days, those that are there to level characters and those that are just in it for the end game.
This second set of gamers benefits as they are able to play the game they want to play,. I don't think you make fans of a game by forcing them to relevel through content that they found dull and repetitive the first time around.
You're not buying a new class, you're switching the Advanced Class of your character.
Purchasing BiS mods for CCs destroys the crafting community over night.
Purchasing max level characters would be a hard sell (I'm not against it in theory) I just set my sights on a more realistic implementation, I think an entrance level for a purchased character should be the same as the maximum level attainable purely through free-to-play.
It's not an aversion of effort if a player has put the time into levelling up a character. There are still 7 other classes for them to level up.
On average it's taken me about 80 hours to complete through to the start of Makeb, with my regular available time that's anywhere between 2-3 months of play.
How other games do things is up to their Devs. Things can change.
And, depending on player demand some rules can change. Every season of Formula 1 that roles around there are new restrictions to be implemented. There are quite a few variants of Poker. And, around a board game players can set their own 'House rules' if they want.
Powertech is an Advanced Class, Bounty Hunter is the Class no matter how many times you want to impose your definition on the subject.
If a player levelled as a melee DPS they didn't put the time in as a Tank and yet they can switch out their role fairly easily.
And, I'd say the role is a far more important aspect of what defines a character in the game.
So, instead of paying a little bit to switch over the Advanced Class to carry on playing with their friends, or to catch up with their friends in a reasonable time frame. You think it's far better that a prospective player is forced to endure an element of the game they do not enjoy?
From my observations on the guilds I've been in players turn up to do OPs on OPs night and then disappear. Levelling was always seen as a solo activity get back to us when we can run some level 50+ FPs with you.

So, in a nutshell, you want "someone else", in this case BW, to solve a perceived "problem" of a player who made a choice that they ACKNOWLEDGED AND CONFIRMED was the choice they wanted to make and understood was a PERMANENT choice, by catering to players who are too averse to the effort of leveling a new class.

I guess we'll just have to make it so that no one ever has to do anything in the game that they don't like. Just come and whine enough on the forums and expect BW to hand you whatever you want. No one should EVER be expected to have to live with ANY consequences for ANY decision they make. There's always SOME reason to play the victim.

Whoa is me. BW is persecuting me because they won't hand me that new class I want to play. They are being unfair expecting me to actually put forth some effort and level that new class. I know I can level a new character in very little play time, but I am too averse to the effort required to do so, and I want to do something else. Why are they being so unfair? I know I confirmed that I was making the choice I wanted to make, but I made that choice at level 10, so I should not be held accountable and I should not have to deal with the consequences of a choice I made.

The biggest consequence Bioware should be interested in is if their actions result in a financial return large enough to justify their investment in development.
You may think time the biggest aspect of validation, for me it's fun. If a person is having fun playing an aspect of the game they enjoy they are more likely to dip into their pocket for those vanity items.
They are certainly going to feel less willing to pay extra if they feel forced to drop a character they were playing to go back to square one.
AC swap isn't going to destroy the game, it's a convenience feature that some would use and some wouldn't.

What you have is a good case of the 'I play the game THIS way, so should every one else!'.
While I have no issue with the way the game currently works, having been here from day one I've seen a vast number of changes, the majority of them being convenience aspects that help to reduce time sinks (just look at how much earlier you get sprint and speeders now, can use speeders in space ports, can bypass the orbital station when returning to your ship, get fast travel tokens at the end of a chapter, legacy unlocks to travel to specific location, travel terminals to all the daily areas... none of these were in the game at launch).
I'm not going to loose any sleep if the AC swap doesn't make it into the game, nearly completed my goal of 16 level 55s anyway (just got Sage, Assassin and Operative to go, oh and a hgandful of levels on my sentinel), but it's a feature that I can't see any major design issues with. Part of me wishes it had been in from launch along with some of the other ideas that were tested in Beta like 'role kits' for companions and all equipment being shells. It certainly would make the class progression feel more logical and open the ACs to future expansion.

I do not have a case of 'I play the game THIS way, so should every one else!'. I also do not have a case of "cater to me and let me play the game the way I want to play it and to heck with the way it was designed". I play within the rules set by the devs. I do not come to the forums playing the victim, or defending and enabling those playing the victim or those who wish not to have to accept the consequences for their actions or choices.

The funny thing about those "conveniences" you mentioned--"just look at how much earlier you get sprint and speeders now, can use speeders in space ports, can bypass the orbital station when returning to your ship, get fast travel tokens at the end of a chapter, legacy unlocks to travel to specific location, travel terminals to all the daily areas" is that they only make it faster to get from point A to point B. The player still has to go from point A to point B.

Those "conveniences" do not make it possible to skip the leveling process. The player still has to EARN the XP required to level.

The devs can make any changes they see fit to make. So far those changes have been COSMETIC or simply time saving, but NOT to enable players to skip the leveling process. They have made it easier to level, though, even if some are too averse to the effort required to level, instead preferring to ask for handouts.