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Solutions to issues faced by Carnage/Combat

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Solutions to issues faced by Carnage/Combat
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scylence's Avatar


scylence
05.08.2014 , 08:33 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by XeniusX View Post
I was more thinking in the line of if we would get KB immunity i would rather have it wiht a HO ability thing. Although to be frank i was thinking along the lines of sages and snipers root, using force camo to rootbreak is so annoying. but whatever. i dont care, predation is the ***** for thos snare moments that's true.

Well, i would argue that its more reasonable to think in the lines of *how much can a guy protect himself VS how many utilities I need to counter it. This makes more sense to me than to have abilitys that could potentially counter yet another persons DCD, which i don't personally see the reasons for. The 2-3 seconds tho is not much, and it most likely would not be gamebreaking.
Yes I understand your reservations, I originally had the KB protection set at 2 seconds, but another poster pointed out the delay from leaping itself, which Is why I raised it to 3s.


I was even thinking as an alternative, for UR that is, would it not make a ton more sense if it was more of an activate + fire and forget ability like Kolto overload?

Like this:
Undying Rage/GBTF:

Instant
Activating this ability surrounds the user in the protection of the force that lasts up to 60 seconds, Undying Rage is triggered when your health is reduced to 20% health or less. If your health is already 20% or less, Undying rage triggers immediately. Once triggered, Undying Rage goes on cooldown for 3 minutes, reduces all damage taken by 99% for 5s. Undying Rage also clears the user of all movement impairing effects once triggered and again when the effect ends. When the effect of Undying Rage ends the player loses 50% of their current HP

Savej's Avatar


Savej
05.08.2014 , 08:36 AM | #62
The problem with kbs is that there are so many on short cooldowns and most are aoe. So if Joe the Sage kbs the op that he's dueling next to me, my mara could easily get caught by that and interrupted - Joe might not know or care about me but I'm still f'd. Many 4v4 melees can have 8 or more aoe kbs firing every minute - making ravage impossible unless i get my char and his target away from his friends. But guess who decides where the melee fight happens? A: NOT Maras!

davaniel's Avatar


davaniel
05.08.2014 , 08:57 AM | #63
Seems the discussion has gone back to relatively realistic levels.

Just bear in mind OP claimed in the other thread that it's impossible to keep track of who used their cc-breaker.
Aeriy
op sniper pt jugg mara sorc sin vg sent [55] + some lowbies

scylence's Avatar


scylence
05.08.2014 , 09:08 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by davaniel View Post
Seems the discussion has gone back to relatively realistic levels.

Just bear in mind OP claimed in the other thread that it's impossible to keep track of who used their cc-breaker.
feel free to quote where I said impossible, or end up on ignore like the rest. One can only assume you are just a troll if all you do is try to put "words in my mouth".


Any input on the kolto overload version of UR above?

XeniusX's Avatar


XeniusX
05.08.2014 , 09:12 AM | #65
I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break :P

scylence's Avatar


scylence
05.08.2014 , 09:17 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by XeniusX View Post
I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break :P
yea maybe have that version of UR have 3 min CD like KO does.
The nice thing is the fact it root breaks when the ability triggers and when it ends and u get hit with the 50% hp hit.



Maybe if Camo naturally broke roots and snares by default, the Unbound talent could be simply changed to reduce the cooldown of camo

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
05.08.2014 , 09:20 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by XeniusX View Post
I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break :P
I like the Idea of making camo passive, since i guess one of the biggest problems of watchman is that it doesnt have a root breaker at all.
I think they really should change UR in some way, since in most cases it is a pretty useless CD. It was OP with smash and pocket heals pre 2.5 but that is thing of the past anyway.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.08.2014 , 09:24 AM | #68
Well now that the kid has put himself in timeout. I can actually see this thread going somewhere. When I said just about every reputable Carnie says "its about right", I think a simple tweak is in order.


One of the constant issues I see being brought up is Rage and Window issues. This spec has always seemed Rage starved part if the issue is that just about everything cost Rage and our "refund" is really only for one attack that we "Spam". If the burst is dependent on spam you either need to decrease the cost of Spam(pun intended, but who really eats that stuff?), decrease the cost of everything else, or increase the refund on rage. Personally, I think the last one is the best way to tweak it and we can somewhat address two bird with one stone.

Change Frenzied Sabers to "gain 2/4 rage when stunned, sapped, knocked down".

Part of the issue isn't that we are shutdown by cc, its the fact that the spec is built on steep ramps. A bit too steep, as the down time between peaks by cc is enough in itself, let alone be subject to energy management isssues while waiting for peaks when not under cc. Plus, an increase in Defense, as the skill is currently, is pretty useless against the bulk if attacks in PvP because of the bias towards Force/Tech attacks.


Thoughts?
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Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
05.08.2014 , 09:37 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Well now that the kid has put himself in timeout. I can actually see this thread going somewhere. When I said just about every reputable Carnie says "its about right", I think I simple tweak is in order.


One of the constant issues I see being brought up is Rage and Window issues. This spec has always seemed Rage starved part if the issue is that just about everything cost Rage and our "refund" is really only for one attack that we "Spam". If the burst is dependent on spam you either need to decrease the cost of Spam(pun intended, but who really eats that stuff?), decrease the cost of everything else, or increase the refund on rage. Personally, I think the last one is the best way to tweak it and we can somewhat address two bird with one stone.

Change Frenzied Sabers to "gain 2/4 rage when stunned, sapped, knocked down".

Part of the issue isn't that we are shutdown by cc, its the fact that the spec is built on steep ramps. A bit too steep, as the down time between peaks by cc is enough in itself, let alone be subject to energy management isssues while waiting for peaks when not under cc. Plus, an increase in Defense, as the skill is currently, is pretty useless against the bulk if attacks in PvP because of the bias towards Force/Tech attacks.


Thoughts?
Part of the reason Carnage is actually harder play in pve as well, is despite bad RNG and quick fingers you need, that is raged starved quite easily. So totally agree, seeing how easy rage management, is in Rage (both mara and jugg), Vengeance and Anni, some QoL changes here would definitely be warranted.
I know spec or class spam auto attack that much for energy management.

And I think what would be an interesting tweak, would be to be able to use cloak of pain while stunned... since a stun mara without CDs up is as squishy as an operative.

XeniusX's Avatar


XeniusX
05.08.2014 , 09:55 AM | #70
I can get behind using CoP while CC'ed, Juggs have it and assassin can teleport while CC'ed, so why not.

I also like the idea of getting rage while stunned and KB'ed, it would open up for me not having to move backwards in order to leap and get rage that way ^^ Although, leaping is a bonus to dmg so in theory ud want to do it a lot but nonetheless it sounds like a good idea.
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