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23/5 Operative Class Rep Questions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
23/5 Operative Class Rep Questions
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af_raptura's Avatar


af_raptura
05.03.2014 , 03:13 AM | #51
pretty much what the above poster has said for lethality.

I just want to throw my 2 cents in. If I were to help lethality a bit with the ramp up time, I would let overload shot proc a TA with an internal rate limit of course (10-15 seconds, whatever is fair and doesn't overpower lethality ops for pve).

EDIT: as much as I would like some more survivability on my lethality op, it's hard to see it happening. Too many ops want to go concealment.
PvE theorycrafting has really loosened their standards.
Quote: Originally Posted by karlwaite View Post
As for the skill changes to benefit pvp likes of the fly by damage reduction they suffered and reducing focused defence by 200% is a joke they are affecting pve to benefit pvp.

Adovir's Avatar


Adovir
05.03.2014 , 08:39 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
Survivability is the main problem in pvp, which is apparently getting buffed for ...concealment only.

The changed to probe and the 100% heal on lethality were a good step in the right direction, but without some flat damage reduction on a class with a setup as ridiculously long as lethality (corrosive grenade, dart, and weakening blast all do VERY little to NO initial damage) most lethality ops in an arena environment faceplant before they can use the first cull. They need to add something like darkswell, when exiting stealth for 8ish seconds you have a huge survival boost, something to set up those dots and not get murdered while doing so, all 3 abilities + the 1.5sec GD takes about 6 seconds to get off.

In PvE I actually find our survivability to be just fine with the new probe and free heal on roll, I roll a lot to catch up to mobs, to avoid aoes, etc and just throw up that heal on my way back to the mob.

That however does not make us a desired pick. We still bring absolutely nothing but damage that snipers or maras can do just as well, along with group wide utility spells. What bugs me is how long this is taking to implement, RIFT fixed this issue for all DPS classes within the first few months of their release, ToR has been out for years now. Givesops something that they can bring to the raid other than damage.

And how long are we going to have absolutely stupid talents like stealth detection and dodge increase. I feel like that was put in concealment as a joke and accidently went out like that.

Class rep, dont focus just on concealment like the devs are doing now please. Yes concealment needs some survival as well, but while concealment can come out of stealth swinging and hitting like a monster, lethality is not only squishy as well but has to pray to whatever gods they worship that no one notices them poisoning people for (in pvp) an eternity.
Bro obviously you haven't read this thread too much because my self and others have advocated changes to lethality off the top of my head this is what I can think of that we've said

Roots in lethality
Increased acc reduct in flash powder
Make sever tendon generate a TA
Increase the slow on adhesive corrosives to 50%
Make stim boost increase defense chance on combat stims

Some new ideas

Augmented shields additionally increases dmg reduct by a small amount(idk yet pretty spamable skill)% for 6 seconds or for longer duration but put rate limit on it(say 10 sec but on a 48sec ICD so every 3rd probe does so)

Add hidden strike to lethality's fatality proc 100% chance(reduce in ramp up time 3 GCDs before you can start culling then weakening blast and shiv)

Merge counter strike and escape plan

Aikion's Avatar


Aikion
05.03.2014 , 06:32 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Adovir View Post
Merge counter strike and escape plan
This is very unlikely due to the Lethality tree being shared with Snipers. Any merging of talents would affect them as well. Collaterally buffing Lethality Snipers might not be something they're looking to do.

Your best talents to target for future changes would be talents that are linked to class specific Abilities. Specifically:
  • Combat Stims
  • Cut Down
  • Escape Plan
  • Quickening
  • Fatality
aikiwoce
Jeddit - r/swtor

Adovir's Avatar


Adovir
05.03.2014 , 07:03 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Aikion View Post
This is very unlikely due to the Lethality tree being shared with Snipers. Any merging of talents would affect them as well. Collaterally buffing Lethality Snipers might not be something they're looking to do.

Your best talents to target for future changes would be talents that are linked to class specific Abilities. Specifically:
  • Combat Stims
  • Cut Down
  • Escape Plan
  • Quickening
  • Fatality
True but they also did say they were going to buff sniper defensives

Dropfall's Avatar


Dropfall
05.04.2014 , 08:25 AM | #55
I'm gonna put my hat into the ring and list some changes to make Lethality Ops more interesting and perhaps more survivable, at least from my perspective.

Lethal Dose: - In addition to what it currently says. 'Hidden Strike will now apply weaker versions of Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart to the target, that deal 15% of the original effect's damage over 5 seconds.'

Boom; instant dotting of target, next GCD is Weakening Blast, then Cull, or just straight to Cull. No more ramp up complaints. The target will likely survive the initial burst, and will defend / counter attack, but it would put Lethality in a similar place to Concealment Ops when it comes to initial burst. Also means like a Concealment Op, they can stealth out and do it all over again to the poor bastard, lol.

Swap the places of Infiltrator and Hit and Run. That way both DPS specs can : 1) move slighty faster; 2) have the slight increase to stealth level. Lethality at the moment Infiltrator isn't taken as part of it's usual spec, and it could use it.

Fatality: Change to 100% chance to gain Fatality on using Shiv. Keeping the 10s internal cooldown.

I did have a big spiel on making Overload Shot proc TA, sharing a cd with Shiv, and then making it proc Fatality etc, etc. But its a little too much work tbh.

Adovir's Avatar


Adovir
05.07.2014 , 06:29 AM | #56
Shameless bump

The_Assuran's Avatar


The_Assuran
05.08.2014 , 01:34 PM | #57
I think the most important question I would ask is why DPS Ops are strictly inferior to DPS Assassins in PVP. The only benefit a DPS Op provides is Infiltrate, but that skill does not compare to what an Assassin brings to a 4v4 situation.

I don't know many who prefer 4v4 to 8v8, but the Dev's are clear it is not coming back. If that is the case, the DPS Operative needs significant changes so that they are Ranked PVP viable.

Araberen's Avatar


Araberen
05.08.2014 , 02:22 PM | #58
As we'll not have any more control (like we have with KD), would be nice if we'll have "ultimate-interrupt" on Hidden Strike. In addition to root: just put bar on GCD, after we open. So, if enemy cast something it will interrupt (maybe put on cooldown), if he doesn't - just activate GCD. Nothing special, but we will have 1.5-1.3 sec (depends on alacrity) to act.

It's not stun, since the length is constantly changing based on stat. Against bads nothing will change, but good player can't just stun/knockback/stealh etc just another GCD.

Don't know how to implement 2GCD, so post about 1.

edited

snave's Avatar


snave
05.08.2014 , 02:45 PM | #59
For those of you not paying attention to the PTS discussions and changes this was posted today

Quote: Originally Posted by TaitWatson View Post
Hi everyone!

Imperial Agent
Operative

Concealment
  • Jarring Strike now also allow Hidden Strike to interrupt the target.
  • Shadow Operative Elite now offers 15%/30% reduction in area of effect damage in addition to its other bonuses.
  • Revitalizers now offers a 10%/20% damage received reduction while Stim Boosters is active in addition to the healing effects.
The changes are good but not ideal. We'll have to move points to be able to take Revitalizers and 20% on a 2 minute cool down doesn't set my loins on fire, it is however definitely positive and a step in the right direction.

The only way I can see this working in PvP is to drop points from Imperial Education which will result in a 6% drop in cunning. I haven't played around with my spec yet to see what kind of drop this will be but I can't see it being good for us and I do feel it's unreasonable for the devs to expect us to nerf ourselves in order for us to stay alive for more than 10 seconds.

sqruee's Avatar


sqruee
05.08.2014 , 04:29 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by snave View Post
The only way I can see this working in PvP is to drop points from Imperial Education which will result in a 6% drop in cunning.
Maybe take the talent and switch to power augs? Probably still not worth it but worth testing I suppose...
Sqruee - 60 Operative, The Bastion How to Concealment PvP

Quote: Originally Posted by BoskiCesiu View Post
All what I wrote is seriously.