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Needed changes for loot system

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
04.29.2014 , 10:00 PM | #1
Lets be honest the Loot system in this game needs to be upgraded. Not that it was adequate at launch, but it needs to happen sometime, and why should we continue to wait for it. So onto my proposed changes.

Change 1: Loot window
First off we need a loot window, yes we can keep track of loot rolls and who wins them in the chat window, and when it is important, IE Ops, I do that. However it is a royal pain in the butt having to scroll through the chat window when all we really want to do is kill some things. So I would like to get a new UI element added which will show all the loot that has dropped since it was opened, and what you rolled on it, who won it, and what they rolled, with the option to expand any item it so that you can see what everyone rolled on that item. If you need to see an example of this in a game, WoW has this option in it's current live game.
Benefits: Easier to keep track of who won what loot so that you can see when people are rolling need on things and keep them honest.

Change 2: Restrict Need rolls
Need rolls being open to everyone makes it far too easy for people to ninja loot. I don't really mind if a Marauder rolls need on that sweet looking jacket that just dropped when I was healing on my Operative. It's annoying because I need it more, but it at least makes sense, he can use the skin, and let's be honest, looking cool is about as important as being well geared. No my problem comes when a BH needs on that same jacket that me and the Mara both needed and he wins the roll, and no his companion doesn't Need it as much as a player does, and that will be handled later on in Change 3. So we need to keep people to rolling need to armor that is the correct weight for their Advanced Class.
Benefis: Better control over when we can roll need keeps people from getting loot that they don't deserve / need.

Change 3: Companion Need
To go along with the above Need rule change, we need to implement a system that allows everyone to select a companion who they can use to roll Companion Need for. This would be locked from the time you either enter the queue, or at least the duration of the group PVE Content that you are participating in, only ending when you leave the group. At which point you would again be able to change which companion you have set for this particular role, this could also be changed, to have a short cooldown or something. This would also use the same system as the above Need change, where if you picked Khem Val, you would only be able to select Heavy Armor to roll Companion Need for, or could have an increased restriction of only their Main Stat.
Benefits: Allows for people to more accurately roll at a higher priority for companions than greed rolls without seeming like a Loot Ninja because they want something for their companion.

This would replace the current Need/Greed system that is currently in place on the Live Servers, and not any replacements systems that the Devs have kept secret from us. If they have a replacement system that they are testing then I would say let us play with that and if it works, cool shelve this idea, if not and this is popular please implement.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
My Twitch channel, both a link and the address so you can choose how you visit it. twitch.tv/otawo

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
04.30.2014 , 09:10 AM | #2
My $.02:

1 - A loot roll frame would be nice to have, it could be as simple as a separate tab in the chat box showing just loot drops and all rolls.

2a - For Group Finder, Need should only be available to players whose character uses the same stat as the item (and possibly the same armor - but definitely not Need for same armor but different stats). For everything else, Greed should be the only roll option.

2b - For premade groups, there should be two random roll settings, one which works like today, and one which works like the modified Group Finder (2a) where Need is only available to players whose characters use the same stats as the item.

This would let premade groups decide if they want to run with a 'I trust you / just need all' system or a more restrictive 'need is for your class only' system.

3 - Some sort of Need for companion wouldn't be a bad idea (in between player Need and Greed), though I'm not sure it is necessary.

GatorAndy's Avatar


GatorAndy
04.30.2014 , 10:51 AM | #3
Communication is key. If loot drops are important to you in whatever you're running, discuss ahead of time with the group.

Is it annoying when someone needs on something they can't possibly use on their current character? Sure.

Is it something avoidable with a simple approach of communication up front and blocking of anyone not being cooperative? Absolutely.

I just feel that completely locking it down to needing only for current character by game mechanics is unnecessary when communication is a way to handle it.

Better loot window, with more functionality, would be nice.

xarfet's Avatar


xarfet
04.30.2014 , 12:26 PM | #4
I definitely agree with 1 and 3.

Perhaps 2 could be combined with 3? if its not your class armor type+stat than you cant NEED on it, but you could still 'companion-need' if you really wanted the look.

and yes, this can be cleared up a lot with communication, but not everyone wants to spend the extra time agreeing to a system every time they group/pug... and not everyone plays by the same rules anyway.

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
04.30.2014 , 10:09 PM | #5
I understand that with the second change that I proposed, there could be people needing things that they don't need, but you could say the same for Main Stat. Granted, a Mara/Sent could use the Mods from Heavy Strength gear, but Jugg/Guard could also still use the Armor skin from Heavy Aim gear. Unless it was locked down both ways I think that going with the armor category would at least allow people to look the way that they want.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
My Twitch channel, both a link and the address so you can choose how you visit it. twitch.tv/otawo

Starglitter's Avatar


Starglitter
05.01.2014 , 09:56 AM | #6
How about this...

Do like LOTRO upgraded to, and was widely accepted...

Everything drops for everybody as a percent chance, and each roll is independent. For instance you down a boss, and his loot allocation is: 1 Arcanian par of boots, 1 Estabilized Element, and 1 Arcanian Relic

Then have a percent chance of acquisition, say 10% for the boots, 10% for the material, and 5% for the Relic

Each player rolls for the chance to get the items, each item has its own roll, so player :
"A" rolls a 79, 26, 7; thus receives nothing.
"B" rolls a 12, 99, 2; thus receive the Relic
"C" rolls a 67,12, 5, thus receive the Relic
"D" rolls a 9, 2, 1; Thus receives all 3 items.

Notice in this process a particular item may be awarded to multiple players, as it could be possible that no player won an item.

The above totally removes the issue of ninjaing all together, removes the need to determine loot rules, etc.

Sue

Drockter's Avatar


Drockter
05.01.2014 , 11:00 AM | #7
Controlling Sportsmanship/Gamesmanship via programming, never ends well. Honestly, if you need on an item, it should be for THAT character, not the alts, not another character you are leveling.

The intent of NEED is that it is needed for that characters build. This got distorted into people saying they "need" credits, and that drop can be sold on the GTN. Or that their companion NEEDS, or they have another character that NEEDS the item.

So now, in order to combat this... we invent all kinds of systems and maths to handle how loot is distributed. When, if people were actually respectful of the Need/Greed/Pass system, and its intent, this wouldn't be an issue.

Iskara's Avatar


Iskara
05.02.2014 , 04:48 AM | #8
Hello,
First of all, I usually only use need in Ops for rare mats that are used in crafting, BUT:
1. please consider that each member of an ops team is actually entitled to roll by their own needs and by what they consider THEY need. They all spend their time for that Ops, so, they all are equally entitled to roll. Also, is a game of chance so, no one can restrict someone to roll for one or more items. As for saying that a well geared toon is not entitled to roll over lower gear items, think again; if they are well geared then is most likely that their contribution for that Ops success to be equally bigger .... so ... who's more entitled?
2. using Master Loot in Ops should be announced from start, so that those that are uncomfortable with it may not participate at that Ops.
3. I've heard of the expression "but the player X needed that item more"; very well ... let everyone roll and then let the one that need an item more to discuss with the winner to get that item, if they really need it so bad. Is a free economy, not communism.
4. If you see someone doing "ninja rolls" no one stops you to do the same, especially if otherwise was agreed in the Ops start. And if you will win something you need, decide who's needing it more and give it to them.
Again, over-regulating this sound a bit like communism, where there are others to decide whether or not you need anything. (and before you cry out, I lived in such an economy for almost 20 years and is not cool at all)
All the best,
Iskara
PS: I'm speaking of PUG runs, not guild runs, in guild runs, every guild is entitled to have its own rule about looting, and probably that's why the Master Loot is there for.

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
05.02.2014 , 05:07 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Iskara View Post
Hello,
First of all, I usually only use need in Ops for rare mats that are used in crafting, BUT:
1. please consider that each member of an ops team is actually entitled to roll by their own needs and by what they consider THEY need. They all spend their time for that Ops, so, they all are equally entitled to roll. Also, is a game of chance so, no one can restrict someone to roll for one or more items. As for saying that a well geared toon is not entitled to roll over lower gear items, think again; if they are well geared then is most likely that their contribution for that Ops success to be equally bigger .... so ... who's more entitled?
2. using Master Loot in Ops should be announced from start, so that those that are uncomfortable with it may not participate at that Ops.
3. I've heard of the expression "but the player X needed that item more"; very well ... let everyone roll and then let the one that need an item more to discuss with the winner to get that item, if they really need it so bad. Is a free economy, not communism.
4. If you see someone doing "ninja rolls" no one stops you to do the same, especially if otherwise was agreed in the Ops start. And if you will win something you need, decide who's needing it more and give it to them.
Again, over-regulating this sound a bit like communism, where there are others to decide whether or not you need anything. (and before you cry out, I lived in such an economy for almost 20 years and is not cool at all)
All the best,
Iskara
This isn't needed for Ops most Ops Leaders use Master Looter. If not from the start then at least for the final 2 bosses in DF & DP SM. Also in Ops most people are actually reasonable, most people realize that their best option for getting re-invited to a group is to be considerate of others. However should we have to reiterate common courtesy to everyone when we queue up for a Flashpoint? This is intended for PUGs formed with Group Finder, not for pre-formed groups. You seriously need to think about life if you want to equate rules in a game to a corrupted implementation of a social system. What will you compare the Random Number Generator to, or will it be the developers?

BTW this wouldn't affect Crafting Mats, nor Armor Set Bonus Tokens as everyone would have the same ability to use them as a character. I didn't say Crafting Mats should be limited to only people who have a crafting crew skill, nor only people who have a crafting crew skill and schematic that requires that mat. This would actually if used in an Ops only affect those loots that could just as easily be purchased with Commendations.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
My Twitch channel, both a link and the address so you can choose how you visit it. twitch.tv/otawo