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Is SWTOR Part of New "Legends"? Or New Canon?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Is SWTOR Part of New "Legends"? Or New Canon?

ericpeterson's Avatar


ericpeterson
04.26.2014 , 08:55 PM | #1
I know there are a bunch of threads already about the Legends and Lucasfilm Story Group announcement. But I really came to this forum to find information about whether or not SWTOR is being considered Legends.

I commented a bit about this in some of the other threads, but I wanted to create one specific thread here in the hope that maybe Bioware comments on it in a few days/weeks (or, more importantly, at least just see's that people care).

Again, please don't utilize this thread as a "What is canon, what is not canon" argument. There are MANY other threads where that is being discussed.

What I'm here to discuss is any concrete evidence or research that people see that answers that question: "Is SWTOR Legends now? Or is it canon?"

As I stated in other threads, I want to just mention these facts:

1) The first credit of the Lucasfilm Story Group was actually ON SWTOR. For Galactic Starfighter. If you run the credits for GSF you can actually see it there. This is the first credited note of the group of people who are involved in ALL canon. It cannot be canon if it didn't involve the story group (or if its not TCW, the 6 movies, Rebels, or the new Darth Maul comic).
2) On Friday, Jen who is a senior person dealing with Lucasfilm licensing fielded tweets about whether or not THIS or THAT is canon or legends. Everything was regarded as legends (everything, seriously) except for two things. The new Darth Maul comic which is taken from a TCW script. And when asked point blank about SWTOR the reply was "It is fuzzy. I cannot say." So take that for what its worth. The fact is SWTOR is NOT confirmed as Legends as of this time. It may be tomorrow. It could be that she just didn't know. But out of like tons and tons of tweets (at least like 50, ranging from Revan, KOTOR, Dath Bane, Darth Plaguies, etc) SWTOR was one of only two things that were not confirmed as Legends.
3) Just because KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 are Legends, it does NOT mean that SWTOR is legends. Truth is that Darth Bane the character is canon, since he's in canon stuff. But the Darth Bane trilogy is not. It could be that SWTOR is doing something similar, where it is going to be regarded as canon, but reference things from earlier games that are not canon. That's not weird. The films and TV shows do this all the time.
4) From what I can tell from the Cantina tours (and those preview flash drives they give out) we have lots of new story content coming. We just started a big story arc with 2.7. So technically the announcement they made on Friday: "All new Star Wars media will be handled by the story group and be considered canon," this TECHNICALLY means SWTOR has a good chance of being considered canon. Either SWTOR is exempt from that ruling, or maybe if it IS Legends maybe they only put out stuff like Galactic Strongholds which does not have story content. OR, (I hope) we get story content that is ACTUALLY approved by the Lucasfilm story group as canon. Holy crap, I hope.

Guys, this is kind of a big deal if you're a SWTOR fan. Because that means that the game you love may be one of the very few things that is still canon. I'm not assuming that. We do not know for sure yet. But so far, SWTOR has NOT been confirmed as Legends. And pretty much 99% of everything else has been. So that is interesting to me.

Even cooler, if it DOES turn out that SWTOR is canon, it means that you're playing the EARLIEST piece of canon in the NEW Star Wars era. But even more than that, it also means that we'd be playing upcoming content that is given approval or disapproval by the SAME PEOPLE who have a hand in the guiding of the newest movies, TV episodes, books, etc of Star Wars. It means the guys who know what happens in Episode 7 are involved in the new story content.

Again, this is only if we find out that YES, it is canon. I hope it is. Because I love the game.

I won't stop playing if its Legends. But right now, as it stands, there is NO official statement about whether SWTOR is Legends or not. In fact, when asked point blank, we got one of the very few "No comments" given. Plus, the fact that it has a Story Group credit already is very interesting. It could be just meaning something else. But its worth noting.

I would LOVE Bioware to address this eventually.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
04.27.2014 , 02:32 AM | #2
Bane and Plaguies are canon because they were created by Lucas as background for the movies. SWTOR does not have any such distinction.

Timarick's Avatar


Timarick
04.27.2014 , 02:36 AM | #3
OP, go here and read this guy's post then scroll to the end to read mine and then make up your own damn mind on what is canon and what isn't.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=737738

ericpeterson's Avatar


ericpeterson
04.27.2014 , 05:08 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
Bane and Plaguies are canon because they were created by Lucas as background for the movies. SWTOR does not have any such distinction.
That distinction hasn't factored into anything else since Friday. The only things being confirmed as canon and not Legends are the 6 movies, TCW, a Darth Maul comic, and anything new that comes out in SW media. Things with the story group credited (of which SWTOR has that distinction these days, strangely enough).

If only things that had George's touch on it were canon, then none of these new books coming out would be canon. Its not the magical George Lucas touch that is segregating things. Its whether the piece of media (not the characters or events therein) were worked on by the story group, or the movies, or TCW. That is where the line is being drawn. And what's weird, is that SWTOR meets those requirements, per those 4 points I made above. You mentioned Bane. Great example. Even though it has a George Lucas creation in it, and the events have been referenced in TCW, the book was not created by the story group nor by George, so it is Legends. This is confirmed. Do a twitter search for Jennifer Heddle and you'll find a comprehensive dialogue on the subject from a senior LFL employee.

I have yet to see any real firm arguments that show that SWTOR is Legends and not part of the new canon. If you look at my original post, do you find evidence anywhere that counters those 4 points I made?

ericpeterson's Avatar


ericpeterson
04.27.2014 , 05:27 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Timarick View Post
OP, go here and read this guy's post then scroll to the end to read mine and then make up your own damn mind on what is canon and what isn't.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=737738
Thanks. And I think your notes on that final post in that thread are really well thought out. Its a bit off topic from the real question at hand here. I am not really interested in debating the impact of the announcement, or the merits of canonicity, but I think you outlined things well. I just have one thing I disagree with and that is in regards to what you describe as a lack of any real change.

Right now, if I'm a teenager and want to get sucked into the Halo franchise, in 2014, I can pick up books and video games. All those books and video games have a small page leading me to read stuff in a timeline fashion, and all of those books and video games were created by a central "story group." The books sometimes contradict the games in terms of small details (which they've actually edited out mostly and rereleased-- which LFL never did during the G/T/F canon era, pre-Friday, just as a side note ). But overall, the books really help create a dynamic experience with the games. They are clearly part of a team of people taking responsibility for the comprehensive fiction that is getting out there. It works completely different than Lucasfilm media from the last 20 years or so. Night and day. Its completely collaborative and strategic. Blizzard handles their transmedia stuff the same way.

Star Wars multimedia was really started in a void where it was questionable we'd have any more movies. So in 2014, I completely understand their desire to start fresh and start following the organizational trends set by these other large franchises. Plus, it just kind of shows a total hands on approach to handling the franchise they license out. I think its more responsible. Frankly, Bungie and Blizzard and these other smaller entities actually handle their transmedia efforts with way more organization than Lucasfilm has in the past.

So to me, yes, things are changing. Not for those who are worried their Legends books are somehow going extinct or something. Stuff is the same for them, which is great. And that I think you word very well, and I agree with. But for those of us who want to leap into Star Wars fiction in 2014 and have a comprehensive experience that works in tandem with new TV shows, video games, and multimedia without seeming like its created by like 800 creators-- then yes, stuff is changing. For the better. I've wanted that for eons, rather than worrying about G-Canon, T-Canon, blah blah blah. Not everyone worries about that crap, I know. You outlined that well. But I don't want to have to worry about it either. At the same time, I also would LOVE to jump into a timeline of fictional multi-media that is done with full attention to detail for once, at Lucasfilm. And thats what I'm getting.

This is what brought me to wondering SPECIFICALLY about SWTOR in the first place. To have this game actually be touched and overseen by the LFL Story Group would be a great thing.

The fact that the Story Group started getting credited in 2014 as being on SWTOR makes me think that may be the case now. Why would that Story Group be credited on something that isn't part of their new initiative? It makes me think that SWTOR may indeed be part of that non-Legends initiative.

But again, its all assumptions and investigative research at this point. Until we get an actual statement.

No joke though, when asked point blank about whether SWTOR is canon now that KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 is Legends, the reply was "Can't comment on that right now." That Jennifer Heddle twitter account has loads of information from Friday, straight from the horses mouth. For people who want real facts about the direction of all of those, rather than the speculation I see in a lot of threads, I think that is a great resource.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.27.2014 , 07:13 AM | #6
Well we've been told that all new EU material will now be canon, and future updates (which as you pointed out the Story Group has been involved in) to this game will add story which technically counts as new material.

So I think its a strong possibility, but it hasn't been confirmed so we can only wait and see.

Arilou_skiff's Avatar


Arilou_skiff
04.27.2014 , 11:29 AM | #7
This is econd.hand but...:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/luc.../1100-6419225/

Quote:
The Lucasfilm rep told GameSpot, "[A]s far as The Old Republic MMO is concerned, nothing is going to change. [TOR] has always been a part of the Expanded Universe, and that's not going to change."
Depending on what that means, and what they mean when they say "Expanded Universe" this can be interpreted in different ways, but it seems to me that means SWTOR is now non-canon.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
04.27.2014 , 11:37 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Arilou_skiff View Post
This is econd.hand but...:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/luc.../1100-6419225/



Depending on what that means, and what they mean when they say "Expanded Universe" this can be interpreted in different ways, but it seems to me that means SWTOR is now non-canon.
To the OP, I think you set this question up in the right way. I also think that you covered the ambiguity quite well. The only fact you neglected was what Arilou has brought up here. If SWTOR is Expanded Universe, and Expanded Uinverse is now Legends, and Legends is non-canon, then it seems we have an answer. However, as you point out, there is a lot more to this special case, so we will have to wait and see. I hope they answer sooner rather than later, because whether I continue to play will depend on the answer.

MiaRB's Avatar


MiaRB
04.27.2014 , 12:31 PM | #9
some of you are getting way to hung up on what label is used... legends is the same thing as c-canon.

the story group is now in the role that lucas used to be in, they are they creative boss of the SW universe. since all new material will originate from the story group, it will all be "canon", just as how all stories that originated from lucas were true canon. but, the story group isn't bound to any past EU material any more than lucas was. so it really makes to difference at all if SWTOR is called legends or c-canon because the results are the same. lucas wasn't bound to it and now the story group isn't bound to it.

the really best part of this is from here on out there will be just "the star wars universe", instead of having one universe that is real( what lucas created ) and another universe that isn't real( the EU ).
can't wait for this game to come out!

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
04.27.2014 , 01:56 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaRB View Post
some of you are getting way to hung up on what label is used... legends is the same thing as c-canon.

the story group is now in the role that lucas used to be in, they are they creative boss of the SW universe. since all new material will originate from the story group, it will all be "canon", just as how all stories that originated from lucas were true canon. but, the story group isn't bound to any past EU material any more than lucas was. so it really makes to difference at all if SWTOR is called legends or c-canon because the results are the same. lucas wasn't bound to it and now the story group isn't bound to it.

the really best part of this is from here on out there will be just "the star wars universe", instead of having one universe that is real( what lucas created ) and another universe that isn't real( the EU ).
Legends is not the same as whatever "c-canon" was. Why? Because c-canon was a made-up designation, whereas Legends is official. Furthermore, the major difference prior to this is that Lucas was not creating any new material, but now there will be. Previously, all Star Wars material was consistent with each other, now any new material will be canon and the old, EU stuff will not be. It is a significant difference. If you want to understand it better, please read the multiple threads discussing it.