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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
04.21.2014 , 03:38 PM | #4411
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post

Wow has it, Rift has it and well it did not kill their game.
WoW does not have class change.
Unsubscribed due to no new Operations.
I am happy that there will be a renewed focus on story, I love story, its why I picked this MMO. But I picked an MMO, not an episodic single player RPG that I have to pay a subscription to receive the episodes.

Reno_Tarshil's Avatar


Reno_Tarshil
04.21.2014 , 03:38 PM | #4412
Quote: Originally Posted by Anzel View Post
While we're at it... subscribers should be allowed to sprint at Level 1 instead of level 15 or 16.
Uhm..

Subscribers already can sprint at 1?
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
04.21.2014 , 03:40 PM | #4413
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
The thread is full of reasons. But you and people who support the idea will just dismiss them out of hand anyways so its pointless to go back over them again.
List em. List the good reasons. List the reasons that would make me support no AC swapping...because I'm not arguing for it just to argue, I firmly believe it would be in the best interest of the game. If you also sincerely think it would be BAD for the game, surely you can list the reasons why right?
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
04.21.2014 , 03:43 PM | #4414
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
WoW does not have class change.
Isn't WoW the game that sells instant max level characters?
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RWScissors's Avatar


RWScissors
04.21.2014 , 03:46 PM | #4415
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Isn't WoW the game that sells instant max level characters?
Yeah, with gear ready to raid... well, LFR ready anyway.
'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.'
Mark Twain

Sendrel's Avatar


Sendrel
04.21.2014 , 03:47 PM | #4416
Quote: Originally Posted by Oneirophrenia View Post
Not an over-estimation at all considering player now-a-days can also PVP or Kuat their way to 55 in addition to the traditional method of class/planet quests and SM FPs. Grinding the content with various characters/alts is a staple of any MMO and players have come to expect it, regardless of their own personal tolerance levels. In my opinion, with leveling as easy as it is right now, only having to grind through 4 characters in order to experience a large chunk of the game is flat out insufficient and unhealthy for the long term viability of SWTOR.
Just so I understand and don't strawman you, you're saying that its easier to xp your way to 55 via PVP or Tactical FP grinding, so we need to make sure to force people to grind more? I get that MMO's are traditionally all about the treadmill. I just disagree that people will be turned off faster by providing a feature that allows for more customizability. If anything, they'll be forced to grind more end game gear to satisfy multiple specs. Which is all AC swapping really boils down to. The ability to swap roles. In that sense, I would be arguing in the other direction from you - that the lack of options with regard to swapping roles is insufficient and therefore unhealthy for the long term viability of swotor.

Quote: Originally Posted by Oneirophrenia View Post
Eh, the Rift system is not really comparable to SWTOR's. From what I understand Rift has 4 base classes also but each of them has what, 8 various skill trees or souls to choose from (up to 3 max)? That's a lot of unique and potentially viable combinations. SWTOR on the other hand has only 3 skill trees for each AC and if you split your points evenly between all 3, the resulting character will be rather... worthless. Of course there are still viable hybrid Marauder/Sent or Sniper/Gunslinger buildsbut they still remain in the dps role instead of crossing over into healing or tanking. Perhaps Sorcerers/Consulars is the lone exception to this rule as some PVP builds are dps/healing tree hybrids but at the same time, such builds aren't really viable for the PVE side.

The only way SWTOR would be comparable to the Rift system would be to eliminate ACs all together (rendering this debate moot) so we can build dotsmash Warriors/Knights with some tanking abilities or Agents/Smugglers that can stealth, ambush/cull and drop Kolto probes at the same time. Such a system could have worked in all honesty but that ship has sailed long ago. I doubt BW/EA would be willing to make such a foundational alteration to the game considering it's been more than 2 years after launch.
Its directly comparable in the sense that all AC swapping really amounts to is role switching. The ability to switch between dps, heal, and tank roles. That's exactly what Rift allowed and it would work just as well here as it worked there.

arunav's Avatar


arunav
04.21.2014 , 04:02 PM | #4417
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Everyone has time to level that new class. There is no time limit on reaching max level. Its not as if that character will be deleted if it does not reach max level within 2 weeks. It requires even less time now to reach max level with the double XP weekends and the XP boosts you can as quest rewards. Many people are too averse to the modicum of effort required to actually level that new class, though.

Putting a limit of two times on class changes would solve nothing. We already have a limit on the number of times you can change your class. That number is zero. Here you are, though, in a 430+ page thread asking that the limit be raised, while many people are asking that it be removed entirely. If they set a limit of 2 times, then the complaints would be "you let me do it twice, why not three times", etc.

Let's not give that mouse a cookie.
A modicum of effort? It takes me roughly 2 months or more to reach 55 from scratch, and that's if I played most nights in a week, which I don't care to do. Personally, I don't like the double-xp events because you end up skipping so many of the story quests, which to me are the best part of the game, even after playing it for over 2 years.

I've leveled 1 of each class to experience all the stories - that took me from January 2012 until March 2014, though I didn't level a character at all times, spending some focused at endgame. Of those 8 55s, I have one of each AC-type, to allow for experiencing each play-style in the game.

Now, I don't enjoy one of them in particular, Vanguard/Powertech. I'd like to switch, and it will have no effect on if I continue to sub and play the game or not - in fact, I would actually play my Vanguard if I could switch him to a Commando. It would have little effect on my ability to play the class, as I'd obviously want to learn how to play gunnery well before joining an Ops group. FPs are more forgiving. And once you've learned to play other ranged DPS classes, it's not that hard to pick up how to play another.

Additionally: there is a consequence of not allowing for AC change - armors that are removed from either PVE or PVP. If you have older characters and would rather play the other AC, there is no way to attain the same look you like on your character.

My trooper looks great - he just has the wrong AC. I would like to pay some coins to switch him to a Commando.

BW can set policy on limits for changing. I think 2 makes sense for a given character, since it allows for making a change, then switching back if you think you made a mistake.

The sub-base of this game is relatively stable as far as I can tell on my server, and I would bet most have a lot of alts at high or max level (50-55), especially the folks that spend the most on the Cartel Market. Allowing players to switch AC at max or near-max level, at least for me, promotes staying with the game longer, and spending more money in it.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
04.21.2014 , 05:44 PM | #4418
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
WoW does not have class change.
Yes but the druid is has a built-in multiple class choices and dual builds allow players to switch from tank to DPS or heal in a few secs, Gear, UI, and talent trees included.
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Oneirophrenia's Avatar


Oneirophrenia
04.21.2014 , 06:05 PM | #4419
Quote: Originally Posted by Sendrel View Post
Just so I understand and don't strawman you, you're saying that its easier to xp your way to 55 via PVP or Tactical FP grinding, so we need to make sure to force people to grind more?
Sort of. What I'm saying is that the leveling grind in SWTOR is relatively mild given that the game provide us with several exp gaining options combined with a fairly generous gain rate. And that's not even including the various double exp weekends. As such, players need to be given more reasons to level multiple characters, not fewer, in order to sustain this game for the long run. For example, if AC respec is allowed, I can easily get 4 characters (one for each basic class) to level 55 within 4 months and spend another 5-6 months to get them full 78/180 comm gear. After that is done, what reason is there for me to level another character when I have already experienced all 8 ACs? Make 2 more characters so I can have all of the crafting skills? Well, I don't even need to get them 55 for that. Level 30 with 3 companions is more than sufficient for crafting mules.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sendrel View Post
I get that MMO's are traditionally all about the treadmill. I just disagree that people will be turned off faster by providing a feature that allows for more customizability. If anything, they'll be forced to grind more end game gear to satisfy multiple specs. Which is all AC swapping really boils down to. The ability to swap roles. In that sense, I would be arguing in the other direction from you - that the lack of options with regard to swapping roles is insufficient and therefore unhealthy for the long term viability of swotor.
The grind for end game gear remains the same whether it is 1 character with 2 different roles or 2 characters each with a single role. You still need about 2500 ulti comms to get full sets of 78/180 tank/dps gear, more if you wish to min/max properly. For healing/dps gear the cost is a bit less due to slot overlaps but 1200-1500 comms isn't out of the question. If anything, getting end game gear with 2 characters is actually easier when you factor in the current weekly operation lockouts but I digress.

As for your role swapping argument, all ACs with the exception of Mara/Sent and Sniper/Gunslinger can already do that whether it is respeccing from tank to dps or dps to healer. I gather you don't believe that this moderate amount of role flexibility is enough?

Quote: Originally Posted by Sendrel View Post
Its directly comparable in the sense that all AC swapping really amounts to is role switching. The ability to switch between dps, heal, and tank roles. That's exactly what Rift allowed and it would work just as well here as it worked there.
Correct me if I'm wrong but everything I have read regarding Rift class system basically boils down to encouraging players to experiment with hybrid characters. For example, a rogue that has a primary tanking soul but also a secondary healing soul. The SWTOR equivalent of that would be a Sin/Shadow tank with some Sorc/Consular healing abilities thrown in. That would be an apples to apples comparison and also simply not going to happen in this game regardless of the inclusion of AC respec.

ryniloym's Avatar


ryniloym
04.21.2014 , 06:09 PM | #4420
The fact that they are ignoring this thread pleases me.