Guardians / Juggs, ED needs a tone down?

Hopefully that's sarcasm.

If not, then it's sad that someone cannot say they felt like they were doing well when some others say the spec is broken.

My point is once those 10 charges are gone they're not comming back anytime soon
A sorcs dots eating those heals can be a good thing id stop working around the thought of stopping the heals and work around forcing the jug guard to use it early as stated we did not receive any damage reduction along with this change it's just straight up heals that can be negated by damage.

Seriously it's almost like Enure/endure pain in the sense that you are getting a lot of health that goes away when you die. You can either target switch and the jugg will be probably healed by a healer, OR burn through it and heal debuff it.

Try playing huttball as a Vengeance/Vigilance Guardian and grabbing the ball, the CD really isn't OP, it simply is burned through in a few GCDs max if there is true focus fire.

Okay, enough of this back an forth. It is useless, needlessly negative, and unproductive. Make your case, state scenarios, use logic and sense. Stop with the insults and non-argument statements.

To those defending the ability: Stop with the "l2p" and "sin tears are delicious" posts. It does nothing but make you look like a tool and does nothing to convince anyone that you are right. Also, stop with the witch hunt of Xinika. She is a well spoken and respected member of the Shadow/Sin community, and has done a LOT to help them, and the TOR community in general. Yes, she has a bias towards the interests of her main, but so do I, so do you, and so does everyone else that plays this game. However, she is very knowledgeable about different classes, and has a good grasp on how the game works. She's played a lot of regs and rateds, so that gives her more perspective than many in this thread. Does that mean I agree with her completely? No. But that does mean I'll be respectful and take her opinion into consideration.

To Xinika: Stating it's OP as a fact isn't productive. Yes, you gave arguments earlier in the thread, but in the past few pages you've been responding to non-arguments in kind. I understand that it's irritating that people are taking your posts as complete whine (which they're not). However, engaging them in such a manner doesn't help anyone, and only serves to drag you down with them. The best way to stop this spiral of negativity is to not even enter it.

OT: Yes, us Guardians needed survivability buffs to be viable in arenas. We got that with the changes to Focused Defense. It is a very powerful last resort DCD to get opponents off of you. A lot of other classes have similar abilities. Is it powerful in arenas? Yes. Is it overpowered in arenas? No. When my team faces Guardian or Juggernaut DPS in arenas now, we treat it in the same fashion as stealth, sorc barrier, undying rage, or kolto overload: we push our burst to force those particular DCDs then swap targets. Once the next switch happens, we use CCs and go back on that target hard and burn them down.

HOWEVER

That does not mean it is working that way in regs. If you save it for that purpose, yes, that is how it works. It adds breathing room for when you are being focused, or allows for a last stand if you have no support. That is how I believe it is intended to be used, but when it is used in solo situations, it is very daunting for other classes to burn through. While most fights don't come down to 1v1s, they do happen often enough to take into consideration. This isn't just an issue for shadows and sins, but others as well. I mentioned that in arenas the new Focused Defense plays in a similar role in arenas as abilities like stealth, sorc barrier, undying rage, or kolto overload. In regs, these abilities are used for similar situations, but can generally be countered. Barrier and stealth get enemies off of you, but don't allow you to do much or anything. Undying rage and kolto overload allow movement and abilities for their durations, but are short enough where CCing or kiting during their durations effectively negates them. Focused Defense seems like it would fall under that category, but that isn't the case. The duration of Focused Defense stacks mean that unless you pop Focused Defense late, you will always get the full benefit of the heals. This doesn't allow for almost any counter play in 1v1 or small skirmish scenarios.

This is why I, and others, have suggested lowering the stack duration of Focused Defense to 8 seconds so that it still performs its role in arenas and focused fire in general, but still allows for counter play in smaller fights and duels.

To be perfectly super honest though Xinika, is the most annoying thing about this that he/she is difficult to 1vs1 as you cant simply do some lame phasewalk and LoS until his defensive cooldowns is wasted?
I know you strive for balance as the shadow/assassin rep but as things are with "your" class ( i play it aswell at 55 but i dont main it) but i feel assassin is incredibly cheesy with its tricks.

Before you could simply engage the juggernaut, the second the jug used saberward you simply lolphasewalk and hide until its wasted or go back to stealth and /giggle and then restart the fight at your own convenience.

From the player meeting the shadow that feels incredibly lame. There's literally nothing i can do against a good assassin, nothing when i play my merc. I get globaled so fast it's just beyond silly. But i dont start a crusade to kill stealth or phasewalk just so i can remain the best node guard/ 1vs1 dueling /skirmisher in the game (im not saying mercs are best at anything here, just trying to make a point).

I still think assassins are scary in the hands of skilled people no matter what i play myself. Even on my jug with his ~OP ability that automatically makes me win all fights i go into.

TLDR: This whole thread feels like "My throne is in jeopardy! Nerf whatever the threat is, i want my throne!
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=n...8#.U1I591c77Mg

Sorry for sounding sarcastic but yeah, your class can actually use some competition imo.

This whole thread has lost its point. The OP, as well as most of her supporters and opponents, have trolled it into the realm of nonsense. It really started melting into ridiculousness when the topic of discussion turned almost solely into discussions about dueling/1v1. And while "sin tears are delicious" doesn't help; considering how guardians have almost been a free kill to sins for a long time, it's not surprising that people /facepalm because of a post made by the sin rep a week after guardians aren't lulzy squishy.

There are a few well thought out posts interspersed between the ********, but by and large the message of both sides has been lost. It became polarized very early on by ridiculous posts filled with extreme hyperbole. Most of the "facts" being touted about FD are so wrong that an intelligent discussion can't be had until people understand what the hell they're talking about. Frankly that'll never happen cause most are too lazy, the rest need pictures.

Who gives a **** about regs anyway.... I don't.
Big deal, juggs are hard to 1v1. Meh. More of a reason to let one nodeguard (well, except the fact they are susceptible to sap-cap), more excuses for me to stay away from defending "our" node in the rare cases I queue regs.

Still, ED is broken. Especially in solo ranked, most of all in solo ranked. The only viable counter to them is 2 sins to burst the **** out of them in a few seconds, before the jugg can actually do something and/or heal to full. Preferably globalled on stunlock. Otherwise they simply can take too much damage. And if one of the retarded skank healers is on their team, it is GG. Pure dps team simply can't do so much more dps than the other team, unless there is massive skill difference.

It is broken when a class takes 70k dmg to die, and others take ~45-50k, or even less in the case of a sentinel. Same reason why skank healers are also broken, but yeah, gotta deal with it.

And no, you don't counter juggs by waiting ED out. You maul them to death. Or use only similar big hitting abilities.

Heck, just give juggs Guarded by the Force... [or whatever it is called imp side]

Except the damage being mitigated by dcds doesn't register on the scoreboard (hence why it's a poor tool to use for comparison) and pts are very comparable to guardians in survivability.....now.

There's are plenty of counters to it. Your post is hyperbole and why this thread is a joke. Sorry, not trying to call you out. Just saying.

Well they also have Saber Reflect and that other thing when you practically can't hit them with melee attacks, so ED isn't the only DCD. And... well, no. PTs are more or less quick kill, guardians not really. At best PTs can delay 8 more seconds. But they can't pop it in stun anyway, so they are toast if they haven't activated it earlier.


And btw, better make the CD of ED like 1 minute or something, but definitely tone it down. Even if it has 1 hour cooldown, this doesn't matter in arenas since CDs are reset each round, so length of CD is no justification for strength of DCD.



EDIT: and regarding your new post - very very few other good counters. Almost all other specs and classes have a DoT or crucial low dmg attack to be able to use the hard hitter - and low dmg attacks just help heal the jugg to at least half, if not full.

The key to beating FD is the same as every other dcd. Focus the target until they're forced to pop it. Swap targets while dcd is active. Swap back once it's ended and burn. Without FD guardians simply get focused and burned right away. Which is why they were virtually non-existent in group rated and woefully bad in yolo, in 2.6.

There are more counters, this is just the most common and least complicated means of doing it.