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The Entity


DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
01.04.2014 , 04:51 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Like, there are a lot of interesting pieces to Kreia, but added up together they don't amount to a coherent whole, unless that coherent whole is an unstable, schizophrenic mess with no pattern to when she tells truth and lies, who employs unnecessarily evil means to achieve nebulous-and-possibly-decent ends, and whose sole consistent characteristic is that she treats everybody else like scum. It's impossible to tell whether that's a well-written consistently inconsistent character, or a badly-written inconsistent character. Either way, Kreia was a terrible mentor.
Naw man, you just, like, don't get it man. Kreia was deep, like way, way deep. You just don't get it, cause, like, she'd require far too high of an IQ to understand, you know? She's like, deep, which is probably why Bioware got her all wrong. I bet you haven't even read her memoirs in the original Aurebesh, so you just don't, like, get it. (Also, I liked the Modal Nodes' early stuff, before they got popular, you probably never heard any of it though.)
[/snark]

Actually Kreia, alongside Vergere, is one of my favorite EU characters, but I agree she was pretty solidly "Dark" by the end, even if she thought of herself as being beyond good and evil and all that.

Because of that, I kind of like the idea that she's now such a pale shadow of her former self. I think it fits that a Dark Sider who has remained as a spirit would end up being diminished in that way. But that may just be because I never really cared for the idea that Sith like Marka Ragnos and Freedon Nadd were able to return as force spirits the way Obi-Wan did, it just seemed like one ability that made more sense as a Light Side "power" so to speak.

The one thing that absolutely doesn't add up for me though, is the "Emperor, my love" line. I understand the justification that some people have made for it (he wants to wipe out everything, she wanted to wipe out the Force, of course she'd be into him) but that really just does not ring true for me. Because of that alone I tend to think BioWare started with the idea of the Entity simply as a MacGuffin, a prophetic dark side spirit that Baras was using to fake being the Emperor's Voice, and someone said "hey, 'seeing the future', 'dark side', that sounds like it could be that Kreia chick from KOTOR 2!" so they threw it in haphazardly without making sure it really fit.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
01.05.2014 , 11:34 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Kreia's really all over the place in terms of characterization. At times she acts gray, other times dark. She might emphasize the complexity of causation - the famous lecture at the beginning of Nar Shaddaa - but doesn't seem to draw any conclusion from that other than "you should always be a jerk", which doesn't even make sense.
I got the general impression that Kreia wasn't so much grey as she was not a complete sociopath virtually all the time, which according to the KotOR games (moreso the former than the latter, but still) is the definition of dark sided behaviour. Or at least, 'use people as tools to accomplish your aims' seems more tempered when compared to the typical 'KILL EVERYBODY ALL THE TIME' thing the dark choices have going.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post

The one thing that absolutely doesn't add up for me though, is the "Emperor, my love" line. I understand the justification that some people have made for it (he wants to wipe out everything, she wanted to wipe out the Force, of course she'd be into him) but that really just does not ring true for me.
Yeah, I'm not really buying it. The Emperor wants to destroy all life in the galaxy as part of a force ritual to gain insurmountable power. Kreia literally describes the force as poison. Even if she wished the death of all life - which I don't believe she did. Is the force a vital component of life? I don't know enough about it to really conclude either way - her motivation is mutually exclusive to his.

Heck, the Emperor's goal had more in common with Nihilus's, only where the latter was trying to satisfy an insatiable hunger the former is just on a power trip.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
01.06.2014 , 01:13 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Bleeters View Post
I got the general impression that Kreia wasn't so much grey as she was not a complete sociopath virtually all the time, which according to the KotOR games (moreso the former than the latter, but still) is the definition of dark sided behaviour. Or at least, 'use people as tools to accomplish your aims' seems more tempered when compared to the typical 'KILL EVERYBODY ALL THE TIME' thing the dark choices have going.
Yeah, that's a pretty good way of putting it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bleeters
Even if she wished the death of all life - which I don't believe she did. Is the force a vital component of life? I don't know enough about it to really conclude either way - her motivation is mutually exclusive to his.
Well, one of the fundamental tenets of the Star Wars setting is that there is no life without the Force. They're two sides of the same coin. Even the Yuuzhan Vong weren't so much cut off from the Force as they were shifted out of the usual spectrum of Force senses; once they learned to extend the range of their ability to sense life in the Force, Jedi were able to interact with Vonglife as normally as they were with anything else. Same with individuals who were cut off from the Force (e.g. Ulic Qel-Droma, Jacen Solo). They were still connected to the Force, because they were still alive - just not in a way that they were trained to recognize.

By that definition, the only way to destroy the Force would be to destroy all life, and vice versa.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

moopface's Avatar


moopface
04.14.2014 , 08:14 PM | #44
It's the main Character from Kotor II Meetra Surik (The Jedi Exile), she went looking for Revan,after the reformed the jedi councel and found him on dromund kaas, shortly after that She was killed, thus turning her in to the Entity, just have to piece it together, from all the lore on Wookiepedia and or Wikipedia not hard.

DarkLordIceman's Avatar


DarkLordIceman
04.16.2014 , 07:29 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by moopface View Post
It's the main Character from Kotor II Meetra Surik (The Jedi Exile), she went looking for Revan,after the reformed the jedi councel and found him on dromund kaas, shortly after that She was killed, thus turning her in to the Entity, just have to piece it together, from all the lore on Wookiepedia and or Wikipedia not hard.
No, Meetra is the force ghost from the Republic flashpoints Taral V and Maelstrom Prison.

rebeldielan's Avatar


rebeldielan
05.29.2015 , 07:29 PM | #46
The emperor pretty much wants to stay alive, thats the thing he cares about most. For that he hangs onto the force. He'd be like Sion, in Kreia's eyes. He'd depend on it. The force wouldn't as much be gone... he'd be the force itself as it were.

Next to that I like to point out that the Entity has eyes colored in the codex. As far as I caught it, Kreia had complete white eyes or black, depending on her affection to the force. She died with a different hair cut too. As far as I know, no force spirits have altered their looks.

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
06.03.2015 , 12:07 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by rebeldielan View Post
As far as I know, no force spirits have altered their looks.
Anakin's Spirit at the end of RotJ did. In either the original or the updated re-release version of the scene he's clearly not a burnt-to-a-crisp-quadruple-amputee, so it seems like any injuries at the time of death aren't present on the Force Ghost.

If Kreia's blindness was an injury (and I believe she is confirmed as Human, not Miraluka or anything that would just naturally be blind) then it stands to reason her eyes would be 'healed' in her Force Ghost form.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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