KDY still not 2x

Here's what I think is going on.


Given the discussion of double XP, and Musco's numbers being off, It wasn't a week after this was brought up that it was announced that there was ANOTHER Double XP weekend occuring in May.

While it would be nice if the devs were more communicative about why so soon, I also remember Eric hinting when Kuat was broken that they would repeat as necessary double XP until they got it right.


So my prevailing theory is that after Eric's last batch of numbers got roasted, he went to the team handling the XP fix, and whatever tweaks they needed to do, they didn't forsee getting accomplished before this weekend's batch of double XP. Therefore, they put in the new weekend in May to further test and try to get the numbers to what was advertised - and simply just didn't notify the community about it (yet).

That's my theory anyway.

The numbers in Musco's thread are correct mathematically. If they aren't matched in game, then we have a problem.

Normal (non-green XP @ 100% so lets say its 100xp)

so that 100xp is what the baseline would be
now rested that XP is now 200 (2x 100)
rested plus a 25% boost is 225xp (2*100 + .25*100)
rested plus a 25% boost + 30% legacy + 10% guild = 265 (2*100 + .25* 100 + .3*100 + .1* 100)

non-rested xp with boost + legacy + guild = 165

Double XP weekend
with boost + legacy + 10% guild =
2(100 + 25 + 30 + 10) = 370 = 370% of normal XP

double XP weekend with no boost no guild and no legacy
= 2 * 100 = 200

so rested xp = double XP, double XP does not work with rested (just off the base)
Boosts and legacy and guilds work as an additive with rested, but with double xp weekends they are also doubled.

How is this any different than what they have said in the past?
or is math hard for me too?

Again, what?

What do you mean a rule of thumb? This is why the communication on these issues is so poor.

The only resource or evidence we have is what was originally stated prior to the first weekend. That said that these are, in fact, multiplicative (and obviously in ALL scenarios a major 25% will stack with say the 30% from flashpoints). I'm not talking about 25+25, I'm talking about 25+30 (legacy).

If we go off their base, then how do you come to 150% :S. If the base is 100%, then 200%... Surely?

I'm speaking about the base numbers for non-doubled experience.

What I mean by multiplicative(as opposed to flat-stacking), is when you multiply the bonuses.

Rested Experienced is multiplicative.
Double Experience is multiplicative.
Experience boosts(the CM items) are flat stacking.
Character Perks are flat stacking.


Multiplicative would look like this: 1.25*1.25=1.5625, for a subscriber using an experience boost during normal experience. This is NOT how character perks and experience boosts work. This is only how double xp and rested xp works.

Flat stacking(which is what all boosts except for rested and double xp use) looks like this: 1+.25+.25=1.5

*EDIT

I'm going to pull some numbers from Eric's thread, give me a couple minutes


So here we've got some experience numbers for levels 50 subscribers under certain circumstances. If these don't match what's in game, there's something wrong, but mathematically, its internally consistent.

The starting number is 152 for a normal mob. With a 25% boost item(without double experience), it goes to 184. 184/152 is not 1.25 *152, but around 1.2* 152. The reason for this is that 152 is not the base number.

Likewise for strong mobs, you'll see that 553/461 is also not 1.25*461.

That is because the base is f2p, so what you see instead looks like a 20% boost.

However, no matter what the baseline is, rested experience and double experience are multiplicative. They outright double the experience, including the multipliers.

I'm tired and much of what you say is going over my head, but I appreciate the attempt to explain.

But am I right in thinking you mean to suggest that boosts are not affected by these double EXP weekends? The original idea, as proposed by Eric, was for a straight double on the boosts used and then that new % increased applied to the new base. So 25% would be 50%, and legacy would become 60%. Then these values were applied to the base.

I'm too tired to read the entire thread so I'll just quote this part.

The problem many had during last double xp weekend wasn't that they were getting the same xp as they usually did with rested xp.
It was that they were getting what they would usually get without rested xp and thus were getting less than they normally would when it wasn't a double xp weekend.
It wasn't that people were too dumb to figure out that rested xp would give them the same as double xp on mobs, but they were not getting double xp for mobs and that meant that they were getting less than they would normally get from their first run on KDY (with rested xp).
I hope I'm making myself clear here because I'm so tired that I can barely keep my eyes open right now

That said, I think it's working for me at least. I was playing with a lvl 30 using only the legacy boost and guild boost and getting slightly over 200 xp for normal mob kills.
And according to musco I would get 190 something for a normal mob on double xp/rested xp without any boosts so that sounds ok to me.

Boosts are affected. The only complaint being made in Eric's original thread is that character perks and experience boost items don't seem to be working to the degree that people expect.


To go back to my example of the 25% boost item, also visible if you look at eric's numbers.

Since people view the 25% boost as only a 20% boost, when doubled it only appears to be a 40% boost(so you appear to be falling a full 10% short).

Eric's original March To Makeb post is misleading, because it doesn't account for subscriber bonuses.

What is actually happening is:
100%
25%(subscriber)
25%(boost)
30% (perk)
=180%
Doubled=360%

What appears(if you don't realize that f2p is the base experience) to be happening is
100%
20% (boost)
24% (perk)
=144%
Doubled =288%


The 288% more than normal (I stress the word normal here, because that's what people are actually concerned with) is what people will have happen. Mathematically, its 360% of the experience that someone using baseline experience would received.

*EDIT

Most importantly, if Eric's numbers from the testers don't match what's seen in game, there's a problem. If the in-game experience matches Eric's numbers, which are mathematically consistent with the promised bonuses, then everything's good.

2nd EDIT

The numbers from Eric's thread that I quoted I believe were the solo run numbers. The party run numbers are also available in the thread. Hopefully those numbers are correct.

I have no idea how experience multipliers interact in a party environment

KDY in general seems to be nerfed. completing bonus quests gives very little xp (on my lvl 27 assassin - it gave a me little over 6k for completing a bonus. normal flashpoints give significantly more than that even without double xp)

however - its still worth it to run at least once a day for the planetary coms (especially when you need so much more of them with outleveling gear much faster) and doubled quest turn in.
my plan is basically - one a day Kyat, pvp daily, flashpoint daily while planetary questing and bounty even because why not? :P

All of these questions could be answered if we had a simple and clear post from the developers stating exactly how XP is calculated and how each and every possible boost, buff or subscriber benefit affects XP.

All we have now are pieces and parts of the data and a lot of extrapolation from the small bits of data we can see.

It would be great if the game and most of its communication hadn't been designed with obfuscation in mind, and actually provided simple details in game like showing the base XP awarded along with any and all boost, buffs, or subscriber benefits.

Then everyone would have the same information to work from and could verify if the XP they receive for any given activity with any combination of boos, buff or subscriber benefit matched the way it was described by the developers.

This of course would mean Bioware having to explain things like why a boost marketed as providing a 25% benefit doesn't really provide such a benefit unless you apply the 25% to a hidden base and ignore the subscriber 'bonus' XP which is already built into the base and displayed when awarded to subscribers.

It would also mean stating that double xp weekend is basically the same as rested with the addition of a 2X bonus to mission rather than try to hype up the benefits of boosts and unlocks to drive Cartel Market sales.

And the above is why I get ticked a bit over this issue.

It isn't that double XP weekends are bad or that CM boosts are worthless or that there aren't plenty of ways to leverage all the possible XP modifiers, but rather that Bioware seems disingenuous when they market all this stuff so heavily while failing to fully disclose and clarify how it all is designed to work.