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Feedback from a subscriber and why I'm losing faith in the game.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Feedback from a subscriber and why I'm losing faith in the game.

Hyde_v's Avatar


Hyde_v
04.02.2014 , 06:20 AM | #21
If the developers are chatting like some posters here have said, I must be missing them. Granted, I do not always come to the Star Wars forums. But if the developers are having in-person chats and there are transcripts floating about, I was completely unaware of them. The last I saw of developer interaction was when there were Q and A sessions linked off the main site's front page. I was not aware they were talking to players still. Perhaps a link to these or a mention in the occasional email I get would have helped.

When I encounter a bug, I make a ticket. If someone constantly drops the f-bomb in chat, I turn them in. I reeeeally do not want to get in to the whole "turn-on-your-filter" discussion so do not go there. But yes, I do open a lot of tickets. I do not see how the developers will hear about issues with me sitting in fleet chat going "Yo, Bioware! I got stuck in a rock on Denova and blasted 'til I died."

I can try turning off nameplates and see if that helps any. I do not believe that the graphical or sound issues are on my end though. I have several other graphically intense games I play and my computer plays them as smooth as butter. Believe me when I say that my ISP is no help in isolating connection issues. I know this for a fact because I used to work for them. Everything comes from my own research or the gurus that I know.

Again, I don't know that people are hacking. I just know that I'm seeing some strange things. 75% accuracy in GSF? That's amazing. But hit a target that is behind them and kill it in one shot? I dunno. A player recovers from a stun so fast it was as if the stun never hit them? That's pretty darn fast. 32,000 damage in one hit? I didn't think our stats were high enough to create such numbers. But more and more people are saying the same players hack. Heck, some even freely admit they hack in open chat. I cannot compete with people who do some of the things I've seen lately. And player skill doesn't figure in to it when a character without a teleport ability can move from the pit floor to the top level in Huttball and catch their own pass.

As I said, developers do as they will and they do not have to listen to any player for any reason (though it would be foolish to do so.) I do not expect my concerns to be addressed or even taken in to consideration. But I was quite vocal for several months that the game needed more chairs for us to sit in. Suddenly, chairs started to appear. You just had to buy packs from the Cartel and hope one appeared before you could actually sit in one. /shrug
"And they probably redesigned the whole sickbay too. I know engineers. They love to change things." -Dr. McCoy, ST:TMP

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
04.02.2014 , 07:33 AM | #22
You have some general gripes that are normal. Some that have a good basis to them. The video and rendering lag on the fleet can be annoying.

That said, you have 65 tickets open because you are opening tickets that don't need to be opened.

No one needs 65 tickets open. I suspect you are using CS for things that are NOT CS problems.

A couple of tips:

Most people you think are hacking, aren't.
Launguage can be harsh. Time to get used to it.
You may be in need of a general update to your computer. MMOs are different beasts than other games.

By opening frivolous tickets you actually DEVALUE the entire system and create a crying wolf scenario where people no longer take you seriously.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

BadOrb's Avatar


BadOrb
04.02.2014 , 08:10 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
SSD will not help you when the engine is bad.

The game stops for a few seconds when I open the Legacy tab. Sometimes it lags for a second when bringing up the companions tab. Mission reward terminals on the fleet sometimes take 10 seconds to spawn. Which is silly.
An SSD does help SWTOR's loading times , planets load a good 20 seconds quicker and the fleet terminals basically instantly spawn. What it doesn't do is help the memory leak , mind you that isn't as bad as it used to be.

Cheers,

BadOrb.
'Ah you think micro transactions are your ally ? The DLC betrays you because it belongs to me , when your home world is monetized , you have my permission to buy'.
"Oh goody. Lord Douchebag McFuzzlebunny can now be related to me if he see's my legacy name and decides he likes it." quote from Selvec 09/06/12

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
04.02.2014 , 08:30 AM | #24
If you post your fps and ms(during lagging periods) we might be able to recommend something that will address your lag.

There are a couple hacks in the game that I'm aware of, but if you see something funky in a warzone before the match starts, that's more likely an exploit.
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

Hyde_v's Avatar


Hyde_v
04.02.2014 , 08:39 AM | #25
Quote:
No one needs 65 tickets open. I suspect you are using CS for things that are NOT CS problems.

A couple of tips:

Most people you think are hacking, aren't.
Launguage can be harsh. Time to get used to it.
You may be in need of a general update to your computer. MMOs are different beasts than other games.

By opening frivolous tickets you actually DEVALUE the entire system and create a crying wolf scenario where people no longer take you seriously.
I said I did not want to get in to a war about this. But I will respond to this once. Just once.

From the game's Terms of Service:
Quote:
- Disrupt the flow of chat in chat rooms with vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text].
No cussing in the game. Most people who consistently swear in chat get added to my ignore list. But if I am grouped with someone and I ask them not to cuss and they persist, I'm turning their butt in. And I have every right to do so. If I ever cussed in the game and someone turned me in and I was suspended, well, that's my own bloody fault, isn't it? Rules are rules. Everyone agrees to obey the rules in order to play the game. It is not my fault some folks cannot do so.

Opening tickets is how I report things. Stuck in a wall? I open a ticket. Game shuts down while logging in, I open a ticket. Getting an error code? Ticket. NPC is partly inside a tree? Ticket. It's what I am supposed to do unless some developer wants to give me their personal email address to forward things to. This is not some sort of Obsessive / Compulsive Disorder on my part. The ToS also says it is against the rules to abuse the in-game support system. So, I am pretty sure that if I was abusing the system, EA would have banned me a long time ago. And I've been here two years. Blizzard never accused me of abuse when I opened tickets about guards being frozen and not responding or the mob who keeps spawning partly inside a rock and evades all attacks in World of Warcraft. I did not realize that helping out got you labeled a psychopath or gave you the stigma that you were a bad person.

My computer is not the issue. I know this. The computer expert friends I have know this. I spent $2500 on this system to max it out in RAM, video card, video card memory, bus, etc. I play plenty of games. The lag issues I mentioned in my original post only appear in ToR. I cannot explain it. But it has been suggested that game servers themselves are the source. I did not accuse anyone of anything. I simply stated the issues I have personally experienced.

As for the hacks, hey, I've already admitted I don't know. These could be intended. I know there is a class in the game that can teleport great distances. I know that lag can make it look like someone is still stunned but they actually came out of it two seconds ago in order to pass the huttball. Maybe you can crit someone for so much damage that they die in one shot. If I submit a possible hack and Bioware responds with "This is working as intended," no problem here. This is not me being a sore loser. This is me seeing something strange often enough to wonder if it is legit or not.

To be perfectly honest, I do not care what others think about the way I play or that I try to be a "good citizen" in the games I play. Maybe it would better for all concerned if I cussed up a storm, hacked my way to victory, treated everyone that plays ToR like a real jerk, and created hostile posts on the forums and Twitter posts about how the people in the Austin, Texas office suck at their jobs and should commit suicide whenever a problem with the game appears. But I doubt it. Some of us want to help out to make the gaming experience a little more fun is all. I'm so sorry that this means I am worse than some whacko who killed a bunch of people at a Batman movie.

Thanks for the time. I think I'll go away now. I seem to have disrupted the forums for some.
"And they probably redesigned the whole sickbay too. I know engineers. They love to change things." -Dr. McCoy, ST:TMP

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
04.02.2014 , 08:43 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Hyde_v View Post
My computer is not the issue. I know this. The computer expert friends I have know this. I spent $2500 on this system to max it out in RAM, video card, video card memory, bus, etc. I play plenty of games. The lag issues I mentioned in my original post only appear in ToR. I cannot explain it. But it has been suggested that game servers themselves are the source. I did not accuse anyone of anything. I simply stated the issues I have personally experienced.
This issue may be addressable. Even if it were the servers, we'd see massive increases in ping(plus everyone else would experience the server lag as well).

You can tell us your ms during a lag spike by hovering over the cellphone reception-like bars next to the minimap, and you can get your fps by hitting ctrl+shift+f. Tell us what these are during a period of lag and we might be able to troubleshoot this particular problem for you.
*EDIT
I'm going to be busy for a short time, though its likely someone else can also give a useful answer. If you haven't gotten a response back by then, I'll be back in just over an hour and will try to help.
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
04.02.2014 , 08:48 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Hyde_v View Post
I said I did not want to get in to a war about this. But I will respond to this once. Just once.

From the game's Terms of Service:

No cussing in the game. Most people who consistently swear in chat get added to my ignore list. But if I am grouped with someone and I ask them not to cuss and they persist, I'm turning their butt in. And I have every right to do so. If I ever cussed in the game and someone turned me in and I was suspended, well, that's my own bloody fault, isn't it? Rules are rules. Everyone agrees to obey the rules in order to play the game. It is not my fault some folks cannot do so.

Opening tickets is how I report things. Stuck in a wall? I open a ticket. Game shuts down while logging in, I open a ticket. Getting an error code? Ticket. NPC is partly inside a tree? Ticket. It's what I am supposed to do unless some developer wants to give me their personal email address to forward things to. This is not some sort of Obsessive / Compulsive Disorder on my part. The ToS also says it is against the rules to abuse the in-game support system. So, I am pretty sure that if I was abusing the system, EA would have banned me a long time ago. And I've been here two years. Blizzard never accused me of abuse when I opened tickets about guards being frozen and not responding or the mob who keeps spawning partly inside a rock and evades all attacks in World of Warcraft. I did not realize that helping out got you labeled a psychopath or gave you the stigma that you were a bad person.

My computer is not the issue. I know this. The computer expert friends I have know this. I spent $2500 on this system to max it out in RAM, video card, video card memory, bus, etc. I play plenty of games. The lag issues I mentioned in my original post only appear in ToR. I cannot explain it. But it has been suggested that game servers themselves are the source. I did not accuse anyone of anything. I simply stated the issues I have personally experienced.

As for the hacks, hey, I've already admitted I don't know. These could be intended. I know there is a class in the game that can teleport great distances. I know that lag can make it look like someone is still stunned but they actually came out of it two seconds ago in order to pass the huttball. Maybe you can crit someone for so much damage that they die in one shot. If I submit a possible hack and Bioware responds with "This is working as intended," no problem here. This is not me being a sore loser. This is me seeing something strange often enough to wonder if it is legit or not.

To be perfectly honest, I do not care what others think about the way I play or that I try to be a "good citizen" in the games I play. Maybe it would better for all concerned if I cussed up a storm, hacked my way to victory, treated everyone that plays ToR like a real jerk, and created hostile posts on the forums and Twitter posts about how the people in the Austin, Texas office suck at their jobs and should commit suicide whenever a problem with the game appears. But I doubt it. Some of us want to help out to make the gaming experience a little more fun is all. I'm so sorry that this means I am worse than some whacko who killed a bunch of people at a Batman movie.

Thanks for the time. I think I'll go away now. I seem to disrupted the forums for some.
You do know that there is a profanity filter, right? Just check that box and all you'll see are asterisks. Besides, curse worlds =/= vulgarity. In fact, some of the must vulgar things I've ever heard did not include any curse words at all.

As for hacks, they must be rare. I've only had one or two instances where I suspected, but even then it was hard to know for sure. Sometimes, people are just better at playing.

I'm not trying to diminish your concerns, just address a couple of them. Some are valid, though. However, no game is perfect and things happen. We can notify the devs, but then we have to wait. Either the problem is too annoying to play the game or it is not. Only you can decide that.

***edit*** A note about getting stuck: The other day, I got stuck in a rock in the Civil War WZ. Typing /stuck wasn't helping. I was useless for probably close to 5 minutes. Finally, someone came along an killed me. That freed me. It had not happened before or since. Not worthy of a ticket in my opinion. Just my two cents.
You like free stuff, right? Click on this referral link to get yours. I'll get a little something, too. Welcome home. #freethelekku

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
04.02.2014 , 08:48 AM | #28
I will say that some (not all) of the OPs complaints really do come down to some really poor game performance. And, sadly for the OP, the most likely (very likely) cause of that poor performance is local system/network issues.

The first good example is the loading of quest boxes. In early versions of SWTOR, location/texture/state of quest boxes was loaded up very early and tracked constantly. At some point (2.0 or so) this was changed to have them "lazy loaded" only when their appearance/state became relevant --in short: when you could see them. This caused some issues for people who zone into areas with dense collections of quests (the Fleet) and begin traveling quickly (speeder or jet boots). The speed they move around can often be faster than the quest items can load their state. Even high-end systems can experience this issue, but the severity of it isn't caused by game code. Server load has some effect, but CPU and disk performance seem to have a much larger affect.

The OPs issues are corroborated by the reports of conversations taking time to start. I've actually benchmarked this across a number of systems. Conversation load time is strongly dictated by local disk performance. If you have a local disk with high seek times or low transfer rates (both seem to produce similar effects), then you end up waiting for a conversation to start. Once started, there doesn't seem to be any further delay. The conclusion here suggests that the audio for conversations is pre-loaded in one go, but that the conversation doesn't start until that pre-load is complete. If you have a slow disk, or a disk that hasn't been maintained well, then you end up waiting.

This ties into the Warzone animation issues and the complaints about hacking. The OP admits that he doesn't know that he's seen hacking, but assumes so because he can't explain what he's seeing in the game. I can. He explained it himself in other places. The OP often sees extreme latency in animations and game state changes. This is again tied to local latency issues caused by CPU or network performance. Disk may play a small part, but it should be negligible.

The OP thinks he's seeing hacking because his client is failing to display animations at the correct times. So, he doesn't see the stun breaks or cleanses or other free-motion abilities firing. In high latency environments, the game will display actual position changes instead of ability animations from a second ago. The myth about lag indicating a player hacking is largely fiction. It can happen in extreme cases, but the vast, overwhelming majority of lag is caused by local issues, not server issues. Again: Unless everyone is feeling the lag, its not server lag.

I'm not trying to say that the OP is silly, or say that he shouldn't have the right to express his opinion. I'm trying to explain where some of the issues he had are likely coming from. In my semi-professional opinion, the OP had the unfortunate experience of being subjected to poor performance from multiple sources. It may be that the OPs PC just wasn't up to the task of playing this game, or there may be other issues affecting it. Regardless, the lag the OP describes is far beyond the norm, even for mid-range systems.

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
04.02.2014 , 08:56 AM | #29
OP...you are abusing the system. No one opens 65 tickets. Learn to be more flexible and more reasonable and you will be much happier.

As for your other issues...

I have no idea. You need to tackle it one issue at a time. I have a relatively cheap computer and I don't run into all the issues you do.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
04.02.2014 , 09:47 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK View Post
When you have a freemium model like SWTOR does, long Q times are to be expected because

a) hardly anyone subs now
b) restrictions on preferred (limits on 5 warzones/flashpoints a week reduces participation)
c) PvP has been officially killed by Bioware after this thread

As for lag, there isn't much you can do when the game has a clunky engine and bad coding. If you were here for the days of Ilum pvp at launch, you would have seen a marked improvement as the game engine can now handle at least 9 players in combat without major lag.

The future of SWTOR is bleak as the focus turns to money. A Bioware design brief starts 'Where can we make money from items to sell?' - and up pops PLAYER HOUSING.

To me, it's a case now of how much money can they make from idiots paying for items on the cartel market until the game goes belly up and/or fully free to play by Winter 2014. They hardly fix anything, and the majority of SUBS are sick and tired of the 'carrot and stick approach' Bioware use.

With 2 major MMOs due for release, is it any wonder they are offering Subs 'perks' for remaining a sub during the release windows of both TESO and Wildstar? Good luck in your quest to get things moving forward but it will be an impossible task
You pretty much hit on everything.

Player population continues to fall making it harder and harder to pvp and do operations. Content seems to be focused on things that can make them money, GSF and soon the player housing.

Being that so many players have opted to spend their time in game buying things with cartel money its put bioware in a position where they no longer need focus on content that keeps subscribers playing the game but rather paid content they can make money off of. Clearly they will continue to make player content but emphasis seems to have been put on things that can draw extra cash.

I stopped playing this game because I was tired of not being able to que up pvp outside of peak hours, tired of doing the same operations over and over and tired of new cartel stuff coming out all the time when pve and pvp content sometimes takes 6-9 months.

I understand they need to make money but I feel they have gone too far. I think it would have been better for them to close the servers down then to sell out and continue milk players.