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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
03.31.2014 , 10:39 AM | #7071
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.
is that any different from what you have been doing? Any time someone points out how not everyone even groups to "pugstomp" and that some people DO actually legitimately hang out with friends you go in and accuse us of pugstomping premades and accuse anyone practically who does defend grouping with other players and presents arguments for why a group only que would be ineffective instead of countering those arguments civilly you just say how apparently we are making excuses to keep "farming" pugs, please, do not pretend you are any better than who you think we are because you have been using negative characterizations and names yourself, in this post I quoted alone it shows you saying we "belittle others and call names" so please start offering logical arguments and we will listen and treat you with respect instead of bashing you.

and before you say something I do not even group often, and when I do its to screw around, in fact out of this month I have only grouped few times and most of them were for lowbie pvp leveling my alts with 2 friends of mine, and we lost 2/3 matches we played together before I had to log off.
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MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
03.31.2014 , 10:41 AM | #7072
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Nope, BW need to nerf friendships and guilds. And while they are at it ban good players from queuing all together because its ruining warzones...
As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.

Of course that is what is intended with the 2 existent queues, reg and ranked. However, when it comes to playing ranked and facing other teams that have the same advantages, friends apparently evaporate.
t's easy to conclude that "friends" are in abundance when it comes to easy mode wins vs pugs or sync queuing to gain an advantage in solo ranked, but are in very short supply when it comes to facing other teams on equal footing.
Pretending that match making would victimize grouping is just another specious argument.

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
03.31.2014 , 10:49 AM | #7073
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.
And how do you distinguish competitive team from a couple of non-competitive people who just happen to play together?
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Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
03.31.2014 , 10:55 AM | #7074
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.

Of course that is what is intended with the 2 existent queues, reg and ranked. However, when it comes to playing ranked and facing other teams that have the same advantages, friends apparently evaporate.
t's easy to conclude that "friends" are in abundance when it comes to easy mode wins vs pugs or sync queuing to gain an advantage in solo ranked, but are in very short supply when it comes to facing other teams on equal footing.
Pretending that match making would victimize grouping is just another specious argument.
and there are problems with that its not that simple. Not all groups are created equal, say I am returning from a long break from the game for example with a friend, we are literally in 55 greens trying out pvp again and decide to group up. In a group only que what would happen probably is that we would end up against guys in ranked gear and augs, then well that defeats the whole purpose behind your idea I mean didn't you say the whole point is trying to get rid of those "advantages". Matchmaking would solve this but without cross server that any matchmaking is in the gutter. B: what would be the motivation to group que then? I mean no special rewards, no nothing except maybe a slightly longer que time due to Bioware admitting the populations are kind of low or something like that. C: why do you keep using friends in quotation marks? are you serious? Is it so hard to believe that two friends can honest to god group together for fun? Have YOU ever grouped for fun before because if you have you would obviously know that, and D: they could just bypass group que by queing solo all at once if they saw no real reward in group que so that would create more problems.

Stop trying to make us all sound like bullies. If two level 10's grouped for pvp to try it out together for the first time would you ever make a claim that they were trying to victimize the pugs in there? Please stop pretending people can't do stuff without an ulterior motive, personally I just screw around with my friends half the time (on mumble when capping a node I will shout "like ohmigod YES I AM DOING IT< JUST A LITTLE CLOSER, YES YES YES, BOOM DID IT!!! LOL YES!!!).
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Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
03.31.2014 , 10:57 AM | #7075
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
And how do you distinguish competitive team from a couple of non-competitive people who just happen to play together?
exactly, his only response to that that I have seen is putting friends in quotation marks to imply we are making up excuses instead of actually giving us an answer, please, give us an answer to this without switching topic and without making defamatory claims or implications or assumptions toward us.

edit: now I got to go for an hour and a half please give a logical, concise response please.
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
03.31.2014 , 11:03 AM | #7076
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.
To be blunt...you guys deserve it as you are always the ones to complain first. Maybe instead of crying and blaming things on other you should, I don't know, ask questions? Like that assassin ************ about stun locking (lol...). Ask how to counter it, not ***** about it and continue to be terrible.

Kurvv's Avatar


Kurvv
03.31.2014 , 11:04 AM | #7077
Isn't there a 1or 2k reply limit to threads before a mod is supposed to lock and restart? How does this have 7k responses?
My preferred method of cc is death

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
03.31.2014 , 11:28 AM | #7078
My favorite anti-premade argument is the WoW one. Where the devs came out aginst premades and specifically mention PUGstomping. So many people on these forums were crusading for a separation based on their comments, so I had to look into it.

WoW had an add-on that was allowing players to superqueue essentially. They only limited the amount of players that it could keep together, just like SWTOR has now.

There are not 4 players in the game that should ever be able to beat you by themselves unless you are absolutely terrible. That being said, there are other inequalities that cause issues such as lack of healers on one team. If one team is better than the other AND they have the only healer(s), you tend to see extremely one-sided matches. But the population can't support matchmaking based on skill AND role AND class AND faction AND everything else that would give you perfect games.

You joined a random queue and got random games. Shocking you didn't get the utopia you expected. Adjust your perceptions of what the reg queue offers and you'll find yourself far less disappointed by it. Or just quit the warzones like 50% of players do anyway.
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Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
03.31.2014 , 11:41 AM | #7079
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
My favorite anti-premade argument is the WoW one. Where the devs came out aginst premades and specifically mention PUGstomping. So many people on these forums were crusading for a separation based on their comments, so I had to look into it.

WoW had an add-on that was allowing players to superqueue essentially. They only limited the amount of players that it could keep together, just like SWTOR has now.

There are not 4 players in the game that should ever be able to beat you by themselves unless you are absolutely terrible. That being said, there are other inequalities that cause issues such as lack of healers on one team. If one team is better than the other AND they have the only healer(s), you tend to see extremely one-sided matches. But the population can't support matchmaking based on skill AND role AND class AND faction AND everything else that would give you perfect games.

You joined a random queue and got random games. Shocking you didn't get the utopia you expected. Adjust your perceptions of what the reg queue offers and you'll find yourself far less disappointed by it. Or just quit the warzones like 50% of players do anyway.

to be fair there have been premades formed out of very skilled ranked players with tons of experience, where as pure random group you dont stand the chance. If you know something about the old european ranked scene Nostrum Dolus might ring a bell. when there top players queued as a group it was basically spawn camping. They basically did the same to 90% (rough estimate, i know the internet and numbers) of the ranked population with their full 8, so this isnt really a benchmark.

Most premade you see in the game are more than are beatable by pure pugs, with competent people (big if i know, and i don't call these people "bads", they have to refuse to improve to deserve that name).

anyway, the last bit of competitive players are leaving the game for good now. I think the premade thing will soon be a non issue. And the average play will dumb down even further.
Seriously if i get hard stunned, knocked back and whirlewinded by a sorc, he deserves to be globaled, i see this stuff more every day.

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
03.31.2014 , 12:15 PM | #7080
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
Premades are given the ability to choose 50% of their team. They can choose 50% of the composition, gear, skill, communication method, and experience with each other. That is a huge game mechanic which favors them. If you can't understand this then you are beyond hope.

That is why I said that you do not like competition. Someone defending the current system is either too dumb to understand the above advantages or they don't want competition. Maybe I overestimated you.
dude i'm all with you in that we need more competitive matches and less one sided stomps, but i honestly think your solution is all wrong. imho very few premades actually contain 4 very good players, and those are the reason this thread exists, but if you make it a habit to check your team you'll see that quite frequently you'll have a premade on your side as well, just one that is not very good. On the other hand if you solo queue often i'm sure there's some names that if you see two of them in your team you know you're going to put up a fight no matter who you are facing.

I strongly believe it has never been about premades, it's all about the amount of good, average and bad players. If a premade contains 4 great players then yes, they are stacking the deck and we need to get very lucky with our team to have a shot, but most premades are not that good, and there are a lot of very good solo queuers, we just need to match the best solos in the queue against the good premades and it's gonna be a decent fight.