Kaggath Tournament Finals - Ascending Empire vs Droid Supremacy

Well that is a potential 100 or so guns left out as well as the MC80 no longer being there, from the picture of the ship they showed, and the size I would assume Imp 1 armament, it is still considered a SSD after all.

Also could you link me your info on the Endor ships? Again anything that will make my upcoming analysis as accurate as possible since i dont have to worry about pesky era barriers will be very appreciated.

As I said, I've updated it.

And anyway I doubt that, it is classed as a Battlecruiser as opposed to a Star Destroyer and was second-in-command to the fleet, so I expect it was somewhere between an ISD and an Executor-class.

And here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Endor

Thank you. Going to confirm info and see if we cant get some kind of consensus on the Imp Com ships weapons. I am assuming you can send the Executor 1 location and the rest of the fleet the other (or spaced out small enough that the rest of the fleet can respond to what ever fast enough with out any interuption.) then it would literally almost take the entire DS fleet as far as I can tell to break them, and that is before Kuat and Corellia really start pumping stuff out.

Ok so Battle of Endor looking through them looks about equal parts Imp 1 and Imp 2, last I checked 35 total of those class of ships so that would be 3 Imp II's and 4 Imp 1's if memory serves (7 total is 1/5th if I am not mistaken.)

Yes but I expect after gathering information on the more or less exact makeup of the enemy fleet and perhaps even recieving a report of the Executor leaving (or at least tracking its progress in the Outer Rim) and realizing they are in possession of Kuat and Corellia they'd launch a large naval offensive consisting of the majority of their force to get the upper hand. Leaving their worlds vulnerable, though expecting to at least stall the Executor's arrival.

My point is I dont think they need the Executor, I believe the other warships in tandum might be strong enough to fight off the smaller DS ships, but again I will put my feet on solid ground AFTER i have figured out just how many of everything there is in the AE fleet and make up my mind.

Well the figures are there so...

I agree.

Ya I have found them a bit inaccurate already, there would be at least 3 Imp II's based entirely on the Endor battle. If you go through the known ships they are equal parts Imp 1 and Imp 2, we know the Death Squad had 35 Star Destroyers in it, that would mean a total of 7 ships with that there are at least 3 Imp II's with 4 Imp 1, That is missing at least 1 Imp 2 out of your calc. Thrawn's fleet on the other hand is almost entirely made up of Imp 1's it seems save for his own. Which would add 1 more into the Imp II catagory and 2 more into the Imp 1 Catagory making for 4 II's and 6 I's. Thrawn had a couple Victory 1's and 3 Interdictor's as well it seems. Also if you look at the picture http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:...27s_Armada.JPG in the organization bit we can see that he had many Carrack-class ships as well. 22 for 5 Imp's, I would assume similar ratios being kept through out his fleet thus likely 44 of these makeing for a total after dropping around 9 (dont assume Death sqaud is the same obviously)

1 Executor
1 Imperial Com ship
4 Imp II (140 turbo laser, 20 Ion)
6 Imp I (73 Turbo laser,62 ion)
1 Tector-class (same as Imp II likely)
2 Victory I (50 turbo laser, 80 concussive missiles) (1 from thrawn fleet 1 from Death squad last i checked the 1/5th was for each fleet rounded up to a whole ship NOT from the 2 fleets together to make it more fair for those that chose individual fleets over those that chose huge Navies)
2 Immobillizer-class (20 laser cannons) (again 1 from each fleet same reason)
10 Carrack-class (10 turbo laser, 20 laser cannon) (1 from death squad again see above from victory and Immobillizer)
36 Dreadnaught-class (10 turbo laser, 30 laser cannon, unknown ion OR 50 turbo laser, 1 Concussive..... of those turbo's 20 being light turbo's likely able to still hit fighters most of the time)

Total armament not including Comm ship or Executor would be around

1668-2138 Turbolasers (the spread is there because Dreadnaught's could be and LIKELY are the upgraded version not the original thus the high amount is more likely then the low)
472 Ion Cannons
160-196 Conncussive missiles (same as turbo's)
240-1320 laser cannons (assuming alternate for Carrak, the high end is original dreadnaughts not upgraded seems unlikely to me)

vs

12 Venator's (10 turbo lasers, 52 laser, 4 proton)
70 Interceptor (6 turbo laser, 3 proton)
118 Gozanti (4 laser cannon, 1 proton)

580 turbolasers
1094 laser cannons
342 Proton torps


I feel I am missing somthing here when it comes to the DS fleets numbers where did you get your calcs beni?

That being said i also want to look at number of fighters in which AE has

1226 (this again does not include comm ship or Exector) also doesnt include landing craft or boarding shuttles just fighters and bombers.

VS DS

5280 Again fighter compliments only.

Now this means the DS has a decissive Fighter supperiority, but is seriously lacking in large ship battles. That being said though they will be droid pilots vs Clones in this case and even at more then 4:1 advantage the clones have shown the ability to out fly droids.

All-in=all according to these numbers they dont need the Comm ship or the Executor to fend off the DS navy large ships, the only thing they need worry about is the fighter compliments.

Edit: considering the AE leadership and the like they might put the Dreadnaughts to original configuration for greater fighter defense evening the odds there while still haveing triple the fire power of the DS fleet with out considering the Executor.

Also, I did mention that exact idea in my long response cept it was probe droids... still.

Yeah I wasn't gonna waste time breaking your quote up for every response I made, it was one long-*** quote.

Also Beni, Mon Mothma wouldn't give up her life to save millions because she knows that should she and her faction lose it will mean the death and enslavement of trillions of other beings. Mon Mothma has a greater moral imperative to the lives of trillions than a few million on one planet. It'll bother her sure, but she's shown this kind of resolve before, else Aurbere would never have picked her.

As for Counter-intelligence, every military (clones included) had a counter-intelligence branch that dealt in securing their military secrets. I'm not giving a named group, but then again neither are you when you make the blanket statement of "Underworld" (hint: they're not all Exchange or willing to help the Exchange) and in all the history there are very few (if any) accounts of the Underworld actively infiltrating militaries and obtaining info. Why? Because militaries are good at protecting their secrets.

Also, lets look at every criminal organization in the history of Star Wars. None have been effective against the militaries of their eras and as intelligence-gathering goes, it is pretty limited what they could ever get their hands on. Add to that the tendencies for backstabbing and my scenario where they work both sides to prolong the war (more profit) and you have an untrustworthy, rag-tag band of mercs not even trained as fighters who have trouble with even local law enforcement and you want THEM to be the vanguard of an invasion? Even under Maul they were pretty weak without trained Mando warriors and couldn't stand against either faction directly (as they will more or less in this case).

Except for teh Black Sun under Xizor cause he is teh boss.