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Any Dev-Love for Crew Skills in the foreseeable future...???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Any Dev-Love for Crew Skills in the foreseeable future...???

Bristol's Avatar


Bristol
03.21.2014 , 08:07 AM | #1
Please, oh PLEASE, spend some time on the Gathering and Mission Skill window. Give it some of the Dev-Love that the GTN has received. It is so unbelievability tedious to acquire the desired materials. Jumping on and off my ship just to refresh the mission list is not a solid long-term solution.

If you don't want to spent the time to add all of the fancy filters right now, then please, almighty Devs PLEASE at least spend a day or two coding in a simple "REFRESH" button.

If I want Underworld Metals, please show me ONLY Underworld Metal Missions.
If I don't want to run "Moderate" Missions at all, please allow me to toggle them off.
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DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
03.21.2014 , 08:20 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Bristol View Post
Please, oh PLEASE, spend some time on the Gathering and Mission Skill window. Give it some of the Dev-Love that the GTN has received. It is so unbelievability tedious to acquire the desired materials. Jumping on and off my ship just to refresh the mission list is not a solid long-term solution.

If you don't want to spent the time to add all of the fancy filters right now, then please, almighty Devs PLEASE at least spend a day or two coding in a simple "REFRESH" button.

If I want Underworld Metals, please show me ONLY Underworld Metal Missions.
If I don't want to run "Moderate" Missions at all, please allow me to toggle them off.
Don't hold your breath, this has been a request since before launch, and has always fallen on deaf ears.

I personally think it is by design to take advantage of ignorant or lazy people who don't know or won't (or in some cases like being in the middle of an Operations) can't zone / relog to cycle the list.

And honestly, as botched as the 2.0 update was to crafting, I would be happy if they just went in and finished cleaning up the mess still left over like all the mis-labeled / coded / priced missions (Bountiful that aren't Bountiful, Bountiful that are really Rich, etc) as well as cleaned up Bio mats (Scavenging and Archy both have one type of each green material, BIo has three, such that I always have a stack of one I don't need while not having any of one I do).

Bristol's Avatar


Bristol
03.21.2014 , 08:30 AM | #3
Okay, maybe this then: Even as a subscriber, I would GLADLY fork over Cartel Coins to buy a REFRESH button on my Crew Skill Window. And BUTT-LOADS of Cartel Coins to buy some Filters for it!
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.21.2014 , 09:04 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Bristol View Post
Please, oh PLEASE, spend some time on the Gathering and Mission Skill window. Give it some of the Dev-Love that the GTN has received. It is so unbelievability tedious to acquire the desired materials. Jumping on and off my ship just to refresh the mission list is not a solid long-term solution.

If you don't want to spent the time to add all of the fancy filters right now, then please, almighty Devs PLEASE at least spend a day or two coding in a simple "REFRESH" button.

If I want Underworld Metals, please show me ONLY Underworld Metal Missions.
If I don't want to run "Moderate" Missions at all, please allow me to toggle them off.
The flaw in the design you suggest is:
  1. If one player has the ability to easily refresh mission lists then EVERY player has that ability. (Yes every player has it now with relog but you'd probably be surprised how few actually take advantage of it)
  2. The reason one wants an easier way to refresh is is to take advantage of a low supply market.
  3. The supply is low because most players don't refresh. (as I just said, you'd be surprised how few do the relog dance).
  4. If everyone has the ability to refresh then supply increases
  5. having the ability to refresh mission lists kills the market one is hoping to take advantage of

Bristol's Avatar


Bristol
03.21.2014 , 10:02 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
The flaw in the design you suggest is:
  1. If one player has the ability to easily refresh mission lists then EVERY player has that ability. (Yes every player has it now with relog but you'd probably be surprised how few actually take advantage of it)
  2. The reason one wants an easier way to refresh is is to take advantage of a low supply market.
  3. The supply is low because most players don't refresh. (as I just said, you'd be surprised how few do the relog dance).
  4. If everyone has the ability to refresh then supply increases
  5. having the ability to refresh mission lists kills the market one is hoping to take advantage of
Gathering raw materials requires neither skill nor challenge. What it does require though is credits and time. The current mechanism is perceived as both boring and frustrating, neither is appealing to a gamer. So, by extension, neither is beneficial to the SWTOR community as a whole. Gathering and Mission Skills are a credit sink, where players turn in-game currency into in-game materials. Having the current mechanism where road blocks are in place, be they intentional or unintentional, are frustrating and in no way fun. For gathering, a player can choose to go into the wild and gather nodes. This option is not available for the material rewards from Mission skills.

Add a refresh button, or a filter or 12. If this makes the gathering of materials easier, what's the down side? Raw material prices drop. Does the drop of raw material prices hurt more people then they help? I personally don't sell materials, I use them to make armour, mods, enhancements, barrels, hilts, implants, ear pieces for use on my alts or for my guild. I would argue that removing the frustration from gathering materials would only alienate the Raw Material Brokers, and not the content-hungry gamer in general. I would love to improve my gear every 3 levels, but the frustration associated with gathering the raw materials is prohibitively un-fun.

Furthermore, I could argue that making raw materials less frustrating to gather might shift perceived GTN value from Raw Materials and onto Finished Goods.
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.21.2014 , 11:41 AM | #6
I pose this question: in all MMOs you have ever played has gathering materials for crafting EVER been "fun"? I'll grant that "fun" means different things to different people, but in my experience materials acquisition has always been a "necessary evil," occasionally relaxing, but rarely "fun."

I'll also grant that not getting the one mission you want can be frustrating, but I do not have that problem. Why? Because I live by the mindset of, "anything I can get, I will eventually use:"
  • So what if the UT Rich metals mission "Secret Recipe" is not available, I'll just run a grade 6 Rich companion gift mission because I always have an alt that will need them eventually
  • So what if Unsliceable? is not up, Credit Drain is and I am always looking for discovered missions
  • So what if neither Rich Slicing mission is up, my scavenging choices are a perfect distribution: both rich, both abundant, and the tricopper flux mission
  • So secret recipe is not up, but I just sold out of Agile Mods, I'll make some more
  • So none of my gathering or mission skill missions are particularly appealing, let's use some of the stock I have and get ahead of finished good demand for once
The list goes on and on and on and on and on . The point is that with three crew skills, without doing the relog dance there is usually more than enough for five companions to do.

Futhermore from a lore/universe perspective it can be argued that having the different missions is an indication of how available those materials are in that moment in time. This mechanism is in place to counter to game system mechanics that all materials are in infinite supply (all it takes is time and/or credits).

So, a compromise:
  • instead of a refresh button just list all available missions (effectively does the same thing: gives the player the mission(s) he/she wants).
  • the more you run a single given mission the longer it takes to complete each time (i.e. a cumulative 10% increase)
  • the system will reset if you permit a "cooldown" to expire

Example: Unsliceable? takes 1h 20mins (80mins) to complete
1st run: 80mins
2nd run: 88mins
3rd run: 96.8mins
4th run:106.5mins
5th run:117.1mins
6th run:128.8mins
7th run: 141.7mins
8th run: 155.9mins
9th run: 171.5mins
etc
But if you choose not to run Unsliceable for 1.5hrs (90mins), it resets to 1.333hrs (80 mins). This means that after a certain number of runs with a specific mission it pays to not run it for a while.

This continues the "simulation" of hard to get materials, but you are still acquiring them at the most credits cost effective manner.

Lastly, I think the bigger problem is the massive credits disparity between abundant, bountiful, and rich missions; bountiful missions cost twice as much per unit as Rich, where abundant is only a few credits difference. This makes no sense. If Bountiful missions were more linear in their cost structure more players would be willing to run them and relogging would not appear to be as necessary.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.21.2014 , 01:34 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Lastly, I think the bigger problem is the massive credits disparity between abundant, bountiful, and rich missions; bountiful missions cost twice as much per unit as Rich, where abundant is only a few credits difference. This makes no sense. If Bountiful missions were more linear in their cost structure more players would be willing to run them and relogging would not appear to be as necessary.
Another thing which I think is an unfortunate design choice in the 2.0 crafting system was to restrict crits to the Rich and Bountiful missions.

There really is no point in ever running Defenseless or Insider, as Unsliceable and Watching return both the blue and (on crit) purple mats.

So long as the crit chance and/or drop amount were adjusted (so as not to affect overall material availability), I'd much prefer any mission have a chance to crit. As it stands, there are too many missions that serve no purpose other than to get in your way.

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
03.21.2014 , 02:05 PM | #8
1) As noted, the behavior is apparently working as designed, you simply do not like the system

2) Technically, logging out and back in just to reset the list is exploiting the system. As psandak noted, not too many people do it, and it does not appear to be disrupting the economy. But there people (like me) who believe that if BW makes any changes, it should be to restrict conditions under which the missions reset, not make it easier.

3) The system is not particularly fun, but it isn't time consuming, especially if you don't make it take longer by artificially resetting the list.

Assuming you have one crafting skill, you should have two skills available for running missions; each of those skills has 7 tiers; and each tier should show five missions. That's 2*7*5 = 70 missions available. It should be a very rare occasion to not find five decent [profitable] missions out of that 70. If you are having a hard time, you are doing something wrong, so you probably post here with more specifics if you want help.

But the best solution (for the game) to your problem is *not* just making it easier to get only the most desirable missions.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.21.2014 , 03:10 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Another thing which I think is an unfortunate design choice in the 2.0 crafting system was to restrict crits to the Rich and Bountiful missions.

There really is no point in ever running Defenseless or Insider, as Unsliceable and Watching return both the blue and (on crit) purple mats.

So long as the crit chance and/or drop amount were adjusted (so as not to affect overall material availability), I'd much prefer any mission have a chance to crit. As it stands, there are too many missions that serve no purpose other than to get in your way.
Not entirely accurate: The lower missions can crit, but doing so does not yield purple materials. And they serve the purpose of leveling the skill. But close enough....just nit picking.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.21.2014 , 03:12 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Not entirely accurate: The lower missions can crit, but doing so does not yield purple materials. And they serve the purpose of leveling the skill. But close enough....just nit picking.
True true.