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3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
3 Questions for PT. Lets DO IT!
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Luckyluzi's Avatar


Luckyluzi
03.16.2014 , 07:23 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Brunner_Venda View Post
I can only say from a PVP perspective.

I tear apart PT tanks like paper, even the good ones don't stand a chance.
Jugg tanks I can kill, but they take a long time to wear down, and I HAVE to look out for the extra long reflect to survive.
Sin tanks can actually kill me if they are really good and use their cloak to negate my best defenses.

I'm talking top tier good players here. PT tanks are 'missing something'. I don't know what exactly, but I don't think it's a mez. I'm currently running a sin in dark charge, and it feels SO much better in PVP than my VG ever did with ion cylinder.
i play vanguard tank in group arenas and yes we are in a very bad position against this odd tank tunnel tactics with pyro pts and hybrid sorcs and other ranged dot classes, but this has nothing to do with passive mitigation (shield, absorb, defense) like you mentioned in the question in your previous post

guardian tanks have reflect against burst and can give your healer some time with a mezz, shadow tanks have resilence against burst and can give your healer some time with vanish, they can even use the warzone medpack 2x or even 3x per round

both can use a long mezz on the enemy tank and simultaneous a hard stun on a target without guard for very dangerous switches, something a pt tank can never setup on his own sadly- additional the pt tank has nothing to help his team mates in such a situation ( example: your are mezzed , the other team switchs target to your healer, mezz runs out, your healer is below 30%- guard and taunts will not save him) guardians have guardian leap, shadows have a knockback

maybe an additional stun is not the best idea, but we simply need more utility options for offense and defense in competitive arena matches
Caldera Legacy ToFN FOXHOUND
Naid/Vanguard Corm/Guardian Raito/Gunslinger Tourian/Shadow
Naid/Powertech Zadeus/Juggernaut Varoq/Assassin Kadar/Operative
Zeres/Sorceress Lelani/Sage Valon/Sentinel Talborn/Commando

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
03.16.2014 , 08:40 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckyluzi View Post
i play vanguard tank in group arenas and yes we are in a very bad position against this odd tank tunnel tactics with pyro pts and hybrid sorcs and other ranged dot classes, but this has nothing to do with passive mitigation (shield, absorb, defense) like you mentioned in the question in your previous post

guardian tanks have reflect against burst and can give your healer some time with a mezz, shadow tanks have resilence against burst and can give your healer some time with vanish, they can even use the warzone medpack 2x or even 3x per round

both can use a long mezz on the enemy tank and simultaneous a hard stun on a target without guard for very dangerous switches, something a pt tank can never setup on his own sadly- additional the pt tank has nothing to help his team mates in such a situation ( example: your are mezzed , the other team switchs target to your healer, mezz runs out, your healer is below 30%- guard and taunts will not save him) guardians have guardian leap, shadows have a knockback

maybe an additional stun is not the best idea, but we simply need more utility options for offense and defense in competitive arena matches
I agree with this. It doesn't feel like there is much utility there. Sure Carbonise and oil slick are good but wow the CD.
Koozie
/creampie

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
03.16.2014 , 09:35 AM | #73
Alltough I wouldn't mind better ammo on my vg tank you have to take in mind the following.

On my vg tank i ran a heavy shield spec. My augments were shield/power. In effect this had lowered my defense chance.
I furthermore realized that taking some extra dtps wasn't what would kill me. Those were high spike attacks.

My point is that you can choose between 2 very valid options. Either high defence with low procs and less dtps but more higher spikes or low defense chance with high procs, higher dtps and more frequent but lower spikes.

This might affect the answer of the devteam I fear.

What turns me abit down is that vg tanking offers a lower snapthreat with the requirement of using a defensive cooldown for more threat in the opening.
For the rest I can't think of other things since I don't do pvp or dps on him.

Edit: forgot one. The grapple could use more threat tbh. The skill suggests its for generating aggro since it's being classified as high threat. This might also be the solution to having more snapthreat.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
03.16.2014 , 12:20 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Kooziejr View Post
Did you ever think about making some of these useful suggestions before we submitted the questions rather than going on about JC?
eeh, no i didnt... Mainly because i wasnt playing PT/VG Tank for 4 hours straight with 2x exp active, i wasnt that experienced with the class. My VG Tank was a pre 2.0 character, and i had him in a semi hybrid where i went up to Energy Screens, but didnt take Energy Blast, mainly because at that point i wasnt too fond of Vanguards, and didnt really care about my build and stuff, so instead of Energy Blast, i took Gut. But now he's a full 36 point VG Tank, purely for PvP right now, my guild doesnt have enough Pub players to use him in raids, that and i have a PT Tank now. That's my preliminary experience with PT/VG Tank, pretty rough.

Step forward to now, earlier yesterday my PT tank was level 33, and for 4 hours yesterday I played him through dozens of Flashpoints and stuff, to level him all the way to 40, and during that time, that's when i started noticing the little things, like untill 40, i didnt have Heat Screens, and i kept looking at my hotbar and saying "Where's my Heat Screens?" That's what sparked most of the other ideas i had too. So, now i'm a bit more experienced with PT/VG Tanking and can say that, while it would be nice, JC is more than likely staying where it is. I have also found uses for HO in certain bosses, like the Jedi Boss in KDY, you can completely bypass his Force Shockwave attack if you have HO up, and HO's CD syncs perfectly with the time between Shockwaves. there are a few other uses, but i think that this wall of text is long enough...

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
03.16.2014 , 10:00 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
eeh, no i didnt... Mainly because i wasnt playing PT/VG Tank for 4 hours straight with 2x exp active, i wasnt that experienced with the class. My VG Tank was a pre 2.0 character, and i had him in a semi hybrid where i went up to Energy Screens, but didnt take Energy Blast, mainly because at that point i wasnt too fond of Vanguards, and didnt really care about my build and stuff, so instead of Energy Blast, i took Gut. But now he's a full 36 point VG Tank, purely for PvP right now, my guild doesnt have enough Pub players to use him in raids, that and i have a PT Tank now. That's my preliminary experience with PT/VG Tank, pretty rough.

Step forward to now, earlier yesterday my PT tank was level 33, and for 4 hours yesterday I played him through dozens of Flashpoints and stuff, to level him all the way to 40, and during that time, that's when i started noticing the little things, like untill 40, i didnt have Heat Screens, and i kept looking at my hotbar and saying "Where's my Heat Screens?" That's what sparked most of the other ideas i had too. So, now i'm a bit more experienced with PT/VG Tanking and can say that, while it would be nice, JC is more than likely staying where it is. I have also found uses for HO in certain bosses, like the Jedi Boss in KDY, you can completely bypass his Force Shockwave attack if you have HO up, and HO's CD syncs perfectly with the time between Shockwaves. there are a few other uses, but i think that this wall of text is long enough...
Every class in every spec has the same issue. You don't have your best move until you are at the top of the tree. PT tank is no different....
Koozie
/creampie

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
03.16.2014 , 10:45 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Kooziejr View Post
Every class in every spec has the same issue. You don't have your best move until you are at the top of the tree. PT tank is no different....
But what i was thinking about is that Heat Screens are the PT's main defence (along with Heat Blast, but that's our top tier ability and it's staying there.) talent along with our dozens of passive defence talents. and while looking at the other 2 tanks, Sin and Jugg they get their main defencive abilities, Harnessed Darkness, Dark Ward, Dark Bulwark etc. and Blade Barricade, Sonic Barrier, Revenge, and Invincible, for Sin and Jugg respectively, relatively early. Harnessed Darkness is at ~35, Dark Ward is at level ~20, and Dark Bulwark is level ~30. For Juggernauts, Blade Barricade is ~20, Sonic Barrier is ~25, Revenge is ~25, and Invincible is ~20, I know that Crushing Blow is a great defencive ability, but it's not the turning point of the spec as it were.

Meanwhile PT's are stuck with Heat Screens at ~40, Hydraulic Shield at ~25, Shield Vents at ~20 and Guard Cannon at 51 (yes i count Guard Cannon as a defencive ability). Sure PT's have high raw Shield and Absorb, but still, we need our stuff like Heat Screen, our pivital ability at ~30 or ~35. mainly because Sins and Juggs have their main abilities like that, in the ~20 to ~35 range, we only have 2, Hydraulic Shield, and Shield Vents, and those arent even procs that buff our actual defencive capabilities! they just make us vent heat when we shield, and have a chance to reset the CD of Rocket Punch.

I'm not saying to move Heat Screen down to say ~20, but atleast move it from Tier 7 to Tier 6 and stick an ability like say something that makes Heat Screen increase something else inbetween Heat Screen and Heat Blast. Like say Shield % by 1% per Screen and maybe increase each Screen's Absorb to 2% per Screen? It isnt anything major, at 3 Screens you would have 6% Absorb and 3% Shield boost, which isnt too much to sniff at, but at the same time is helpful.

As for Deflective Plating, this talent kinda makes my head spin... Because none of the Procs for the VG/PT tank require defending an attack. So, why is this talent here? Is it just a troll talent that isnt useful for anything but to be filler? or is Defence actually helpful for VG/PT Tanks?

The same could be said for the Coolant talent, the 2% HP per second outside of the 35% range when you have KO/AR up is perfectly fine, not needed if you have good healers, but perfectly fine! It's the 5% Alacrity from EF/BF that has me spinning... Alacrity isnt nessisarily counterproductive to the VG/PT Tank, but it isnt relitively helpful either... I can think of atleast one class other than Knight/Warrior that Alacrity doesnt help, but that's off topic... What IS on topic though is, why does Coolant grant 5% alacrity with EF/BF? Is it another case of the Biotrolls? or is it something that is just pure filler? I rarely take the Coolant talent not because of the 5% alacrity, but because i prefer Jet Speed or Firestorm over it, Firestorm for PvP, and Jet Speed for PvE, trust me that 30% Movespeed in combat is oh so helpful, and when you realize that every time you get hit it refreshes, it's even more useful. It's like having Sprint, in combat.

As for Taunts, I keep running into mobs and bosses that even after a good taunt, even using BOTH taunts on it, it just refuses to keep aggro on me, i never run into this issue on my Sin Tank, and didnt have the problem with my Guardian when I played him as a tank. Is it an issue with PT/VG Taunts? Or is it an underlying issue with PT/VG Threat Gen? Or is it just bad playing? If it's bad playing, then I guess I need to play better!

In the end TL;DR for this wall of text, Some of the talents for VG/PT Tanks, seem out of place, and could be reworked to be better.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
03.17.2014 , 08:52 AM | #77 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey folks!

Thank you for getting all of this together. I will pass these on to the Combat team now.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
03.17.2014 , 09:00 AM | #78
Thanks Koozie for preparing the questions

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
03.17.2014 , 09:14 AM | #79
These are great questions, Koozie. Well chosen, well phrased and succinct.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

AAntan's Avatar


AAntan
03.17.2014 , 10:45 AM | #80
Thanks a lot for stepping up with the questions Koozie, a really good job.
Imp Side: Lormaru (PT), Antan (Sniper), Winnía (Sin), Nádía (Op)
Pub Side: Kendoru (Scoundrel), K'ún (VG), Wínnia (Shadow), Sukí (Slinger)


PvE: NiM EV(T), KP(T), EC(T), TFB(T), SV(T), DF, DP, Dreadful + Hateful Entity.